Better Together: Live @ 2025Student Summit - Ep. 2 "A Swiss Army Knife of Knowledge"

This episode was recorded on-site at TAPPI's 2025 Student Summit in St. Petersburg, FL. More than 300 attendees—including pulp and paper engineering students from 13 different universities—enjoyed panel discussions, a Career Fair, and Engineering Challenge, and so much more. We asked students to "take the mic" to host their own interviews and share their unique voices.

Our first guest hosts are Tabitha Newberry, Katelyn Gyurich, and Shelby Conley, three students studying Paper Engineering at Western Michigan University. "I think my favorite part of student summit is making connections," says one of our students, as they discuss what makes this industry truly special. Their enthusiasm for TAPPI is contagious... and they may just have the next billion-dollar idea in specialty tissue.

Next, Jacob Levesque, a chemical engineering student in the pulp and paper program at the University of Maine, interviews TAPPI's own Sidney Onyekwere, Standards Project Coordinator, about the tremendous knowledge-growing possibilities for students within the Standards and TIPs process. "We offer a Swiss army knife of knowledge and information—there's something for everyone," Sidney says.

This is the second of two episodes hosted by student volunteers at the 2025 Student Summit. Subscribe today to Better Together and share this episode to spread the word about the amazing opportunities available to students who choose a career in pulp, paper, and packaging.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to Better Together, the Paper 360 podcast. I'm Jan Bottelary, editor of Paper 360, and your usual host, but we've got something super special for you today. This is the second of two episodes recorded on site at Tappy's 2025 Student Summit. This annual event brings together hundreds of students, educators, and industry professionals for panel discussions, a career fair, networking, and more. In this episode, we will first hear about what makes Tappy involvement so rewarding for Tabitha Newberry, Caitlin Gurick, and Shelby Connolly, three young women studying paper engineering at Western Michigan University. Next, Jacob Levesque, a chemical engineering student in the pulp and paper program at the University of Maine, interviews Tappy's own Sydney Anyakerway, Standards Project Coordinator, about opportunities for students within Tappy's Standards and Tips process. We hope you enjoy hearing these engaging perspectives from our 2025 Student Summit.

SPEAKER_06 1:14

Hello! This is Tabby yapping about Tappy. I'm from Western Michigan University. I'm a second year and I like to yap. And and this is our show. Um, I'm Shelby Conley. I am a sophomore or second year. I don't know what you want to call it. Okay. Either works. It's it's really difficult because like I am gonna graduate in four years. This is on recording. I'm graduating in four years, people. And so go to Western Michigan University and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Um, okay, well, I'm Caitlin Garrich. I uh go to Western Michigan University and I am a third year, but it's three out of five. Three out of five what they got.

SPEAKER_06 1:54

Well, actually, wait, I do need to get a video for my blog. Yes, we're making a blog for the student to summon. Actually, um, if everybody would like to know, it will it should be at some point. It will be on Western Michigan's paper engineering Instagram and maybe other places, but there will be a vlog of Day in the Life of a Paper Engineering Student at Tappy's Student Summit. I don't know what the that's it's a working title because it's very long, but it's gonna be a day in the life of a vlog. Um but yes. Um, and then if you're curious about what I'm posting, I'm actively doing a takeover on my sororities Instagram page. Um, it's a really cool opportunity. I get to share the world of Tappy with people outside of the paper industry. Are we yeah, are we literally like plugging Western Michigan right now? Pretty much honestly, Student Summit is something I look forward to like every year. This is only my second time coming. This is the first time I've been here the whole time. We did get trapped in Michigan last year. That was kind of unfortunate. There was a snowstorm. There was a snowstorm, and when we get back, it is looking to be negative 30 degrees. So we are really taking in this Tampa St. Petersburg sun at the moment. But um, we love coming to Tappy Summit, and it's a really good time. Met lots of friends, lots of networking opportunities, lots of just adventures, so many stories. Just maybe with different students, honestly. Honestly, you don't realize how many people are out there. No, and it's so fun. I think that's my favorite part about Summit is just interacting with like other students and making bonds. It was funny, even one of the students I met at Summit last year, I actually worked with him when I was on co-op. He was a process engineer, and yeah, I was like, hey, can can we get some paper? And it it worked out really well, but I made that connection here. I don't know. It was it was kind of funny for the engineering competition. This dude that was in my group last year, um, he was in my group this year too, and like we were going around making introductions, and like we go to we go to introduce ourselves, and I was like, never mind, we know each other. It's like we deal, we go way back. Yeah, we go way back. I actually met a girl that I was supposed to give a mill tour to, but my co-op actually ended a week earlier than what they thought it was. So it ended a week earlier, and so she's like, she's like, Yeah, I was gonna go tour this mill in Ohio. And I go, was it on like December 17th? She's like, Yeah, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I was supposed to give it your tour. And naming the date is crazy. Yeah, like she was like, she was like freaked out, like, how do you know that? And I was like, I was like, Yeah, you know Jimmy, don't you? And she goes, Yeah, my friends, my my my dad's friends with Jimmy, and I was like, Yeah, Jimmy was my boss.

SPEAKER_05 4:16

It genuinely is this shows how small the paper community is obviously crazy how tight.

SPEAKER_06 4:23

Yeah, it's very tight, it's it's kind of scary sometimes. Yeah, it's it's kind of gonna be the same manager. I'm from a very small town, and I look, I'm a twin of my mom, so they're like, You're Amanda's daughter, right? Never seen these people before in my life. And it's kind of a similar situation here. I feel like I'm with my mom at the grocery store, but then I like talk to everyone I know, so then it takes like five years to walk somewhere, but I also love it because I get to catch up with everybody, see how their life is going. It's like my favorite part. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Also, really unpopular opinion, but I love interviewing at Tappy because it is so fun because you just like talk to the people and like you learn about their jobs, and then like you get to hear the internships, and it's like a really good time. Like, I have fun.

SPEAKER_06 5:05

Hey, for some reason, I feel like because I've done I interviewed last year, I didn't interview this year. For some reason, interviewing at Tappy is just a web better way to interview because I feel like it's so much more pressure when you're at school, but when you're like this, like it's more I feel like this is more like a relaxed environment. We're like vacation mode. I was gonna say, like, we're on we're in business mode, but vacation mode too. Like, like you have something to like look forward to afterwards, so if it doesn't go good, it but I feel like the people that come to Tappy, like, really like it's not just recruiters, it's like people that really are want to be involved. And they're in the industry. Most of them are industry professionals, they have some type of role. And you're talking with them all weekend. It's not like you have one interview with them and they're never gonna see you. It's you have an interview with them, you're about to see them at dinner, you're about to see him at the next place. It could be our next door neighbors in the hotel. You you never know. You're gonna ride the elevator with them multiple times.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

It's it's just that's what's gonna happen. And it's so fun. Like, I follow up the with the people I interview with. And I'm like, oh my gosh, how was your day? Just kind of getting on the good side.

SPEAKER_06 6:03

Western students fight to come here. We love it so much. It's like not every like we have so many people that want to go, not everybody gets to go. And it's in a whole application process, and that I think that just shows like how cool it is and how much fun of an experience. How much we love it. How much we love it, and we still brought 50 students this year.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Yeah, I think there are about 70 people that applied, so we had to tell 20 people that they couldn't come, but that's so nice. The enthusiasm there were 70 people that wanted to come this year.

SPEAKER_06 6:32

Yeah, so that's that's a really good look. I know. Now I'm just scared for next year. Like, I want to come, but I know. Oh my gosh. Like, yeah, we we have a point system in everything. It's a little unturned. I'm gonna I'm gonna be doing everything to get those points. Exactly. All the involvement activity, all the involvement activity. I will be at every single cleanup for all the sporting events. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

As you see, and um going to events gets you like points to everything. Like the meetings? Yeah, meetings and fun events. Honestly, I love our I love the meetings.

SPEAKER_06 6:59

Like the paper, the pay like the just going out and like hanging out with people from paper is like such like a real break. It's like a break from life. It is. I don't say I like I don't understand how to describe it.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

It's just like a break from like real life. Yeah, also shout out okay, like this is gonna get in there, but shout out to all the freshmen in paper and everyone at Western. Um, please come to the events. Please, because we plan them, we plan so many things for all all the people and I think there's like six people that show up to each of them. So me and Tabby will show up.

SPEAKER_06 7:32

I mean, Shelby, do you want to share maybe what your favorite thing was about your first co-op? Uh yeah, so I actually co-opt at Grife in Baltimore, Ohio. And the best part about it is all the people the people there were so supportive. Like, I think I could have probably like asked the D dumbest question on earth, and I would have never felt stupid. Like they like they're such like uh the way they tell you no is like yeah, no, like yeah, thanks for trying, but no, that's not right. But it's like such like a constructive way that I absolutely loved it. And like talking to like people here, you realize that's such like an important part of like finding the right people to work for. It's like such an important part of it because like we just had this whole thing, I think I was at one of the roundtables, but it was basically like the basically like finding a career that suits you, and it was wasn't even like about finding like maybe you like your career, but you don't like the company. Like that I don't know, you have to find the right fit for you. Yeah, and that's kind of what I really loved about like Grife is like the people were so supportive, like even like we had like corporate people visit, and like they were still like invested in the interns that were at the mill, and it was like what that's kind of wild. So, um I loved a couple of things honestly. I was in a new position, so I had a lot of free reign and a lot of room to make improvements, and that was really fun. Um, I really got to explore my interests and my position. Um, and I got to take on a lot of really high reporting projects, really high volume, really high impact projects, and that just made me happy. It was my first internship, never really been in a converting side of things, so that was kind of cool. Um, I made toilet paper for Disneyland, that was pretty fun. Oh, yeah, that was cool. So if you ever go to Disneyland, you guys should have got like food tickets to Disneyland or something. That would have been cool. We went to a baseball game, but yeah, so we made toilet paper for Disney, and pretty much any time use a fast food napkin, I know what goes into it. So that was really cool. Um, I'm probably really annoying to go to the grocery store with though, because I'm like, oh, oh, I know where that's from. I know where that's from. Um, that's probably a little annoying, but it's really fun. I think that's also really something cool about the paper industry. The products and the things you're working to improve, you use every day. You can go somewhere. I I the other day I was just on college campus and I was like, oh, that's one of our dispensers. I've seen the dispenser. I've used the dispenser, and I thought that was just kind of interesting. I think it's a really fun perspective. I love like when you interview with a company and then you go and to use something and you're like, wait, I interviewed like graphic packaging is everywhere. Like, because like it because that's that's the that's their thing. It's like a lot of like fast food. And so, like, even our school, like the to-go cups they use at school are like from graphic packaging, and I think it's just so funny. Okay, continue, Kathy. Oh, yeah, it's just like it's fun to know where the things that you use every day come from. I think that's such a cool part of the paper industry, and something I didn't expect to find so interesting when I joined. You know, I feel like a lot of people will relate, they join the paper industry for potential scholarship opportunities, you know, financial compensation. It's a promising career, you know. Um, but then once you actually get in there and you get to know what's going on in the paper industry, I think it's it's really cool. And there's a lot of interesting things going on. I would have never guessed there was so much that went into toilet paper. That that's my takeaway. Yeah. That's my takeaway. I just made brown paper, but I can imagine. It was like brown, like craft. I don't want to say like card cardstock. It's kind of what if you've ever been to Whole Foods, yeah, they're to-go containers. That's what that's that's what they make. They make that actually that that's their finished like product, which I didn't know. Paper had to be kosher.

SPEAKER_05 11:10

Yeah, really, yeah, or so.

SPEAKER_06 11:13

Actually, so you have to go the a rabbi actually has to come in and bless the mill once a year. Oh my gosh. Like $4,000. It's it's really important for food safety break to the colour. But yeah, and so we were actually doing like a sizing trial, and we had to do like we did a non-koshered one, and then we're like, and the comp the customer who sent it to, like, obviously, they didn't have to, it wasn't required to be kosher. And then the next one that the next trial that we did, it was also sizing, but it it was a kosher version, kosher version of sizing. I don't know. I thought that was really interesting because I didn't I'd never heard of that. And I was like, how many people think like this is kosher? Like, I I would never I don't know. I thought that was cool. I think that is really cool, like just the weird ins and outs of all the things you don't expect, and you're like, wait, that's something we have to account for? And I have to make paper kosher, like like it makes sense, yeah, but you don't think about it. How I want a round table on that, okay. Please, I want a round table on like all like the weird like little niches in paper, like making it kosher, making it like what whatever, like stuff like that. Like, just group some stuff together and I will show up to that round table. One of my very special interests is alternative fibers. This night table. I know. I should you would have you, I didn't get to go to the round table. But I loved alternative fibers, like interest me so much. Like when we're talking about eucalyptus, yes, it's a tree, but just with its growth patterns, that's so interesting. Um, I've been joking a lot about seaweed lately. Like, what is what is seaweed's likeliness? I'm curious. Remember, they said it was it in Belgium? Yes, in Belgium, they're working on seaweed. They're working on it partially. But I asked that question today at the round table. I was like, it was brought up in class. I did not take credit for Tabby's question. Um, I said it was brought up in class by some by a fellow student that seaweed could possibly be a source of fiber. It grows really fast, it's an abundant resource. It actually helps, you know, protect our earthquand, it puts a lot of oxygen back in the ocean. That's what he was saying. He's like, he's like, well, first you got to see how fast does it grow? Can you like harvest it easily? What's the cost of harvesting it? Because I mean that's kind of a I'm not 100% sure. No, no. I mean, it's a new thing. Yeah. But I think seaweed fiber is the future. Yes. I think seaweed fiber is where it's at. If any companies, you know, we want to talk about seaweed fiber, I'm I'm here. I'll clip through. And once you get famous for seaweed fiber, I will I'll post it. Patent it right now. Actually, the the dude that was doing the round table for that, he kept saying that he wanted to patent all this stuff or he had a pat for it, and he's like, it's never gonna go anyway. I'm never gonna see a dime. And it was it was that NC State um Professor Byrd.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

Oh, he's power, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:55

Yeah, he's oh he's he's an I won't say interesting person because that that just sounds like me. No, he he was he was so like fun to talk to, I'm not gonna lie. Or like to listen to him talk.

SPEAKER_05 14:04

Yes. Also, going off of weird things about paper. Did you know that like scented toilet paper, it's not physically the toilet paper that's scented, it's the roll. So the roll is made and has like a scented, um, what is it? Like basically like a scent onto it. Don't know how that works, but so that's why so many people don't want to buy it because they're like, I don't want to use toilet paper with chemicals on it, but no, it's the roll. And it's like super popular in Mexico because of like the plumbing system, and like sometimes they like throw stuff, like throw the toilet paper away. Yeah. That's why it's like scented for the whole room. Um yeah, so I learned that because they were like doing little free giveaways, and we're like, oh, do you want scented or unscented? And I was like, uh, unscded, because that's what I'm used to. But no, they were like, wait, no, like it's on the roll. I didn't know that. I do have toilet paper trivia, guys.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

Oh. Alright, all right. Oh no. So we did do this. How much TP did Tabby throw away? Like the um, because didn't you work? Oh no, you worked in napkins. I thought you were gonna worked in toilet paper. We did napkin. I thought you were gonna say how much waste of toilet paper did did you have to say was bad this summer. You should have done that. That would have been fun. So I want to ask you guys, what decade was colored toilet paper popular? Colored colored toilet paper. It comes in like pale pinks, pale paper. I didn't use this. Yes, they produced colored toilet paper in this decade. I can give you an A, B, C, and D. We like it.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

I I'm pretty sure I know, but I'm gonna have you guess because I we had like a timeline of like, oh, they like toilet paper, and oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 15:42

I learned a national toilet paper. I'm gonna guess like so wrong. Okay, go for it. I wanna say that I want I these are two very different years. I wanted to either say like the 20s, which I feel like is way too early, and I wanted to say the 50s. Because I just feel like they were having fun in the 50s. All right. I would guess the 40s. You were both incorrect, actually. So it was really popularized in the 80s. If you think about the architecture and what was trending in homes, it was really common to have like bright colors. I mean, I would too. I want to bring it to colored toilet, bringing it back. Bring colored toilet paper back. And then and then it can be scented to the color. Yeah. Oh my god. Strawberry. Yes. Green apple toilet paper. Yes, that's what I'd like to do. I'd like to bring colored toilet paper back. I'd like it to match my bathroom.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

Shout out to all those paper companies.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

Yeah, shout out to minis. Shout out to the the people back in the day making the colored toilet paper. Okay, because Gen Z would buy that.

SPEAKER_05 16:45

Oh, we would. Like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 16:47

It would be a good idea. I mean, like you could jack the price up on that and people would still buy it.

SPEAKER_05 16:51

It's all about the marketing. Yeah. I think make it seem like a specialty thing, so then people want to buy it. It's a luxury.

SPEAKER_06 16:57

You should have they should have they should start it with like for like special holidays. So like pink for Valentine's Day. Christmas cheap. Yeah, like green for like St. Patty's Day or something. So because people are always festive. Yeah. And then they do blue for wintery, like, you know, after Christmas, because you just get that weird. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:14

Yeah. And I know this would be a lot of work, but like, you know, like the not perforations, but the designs that are embedded in for them is snowflake. Or like hearts for Valentine's Day. Like, dude, I would buy that.

SPEAKER_06 17:26

So if anyone's interested in funding our seasonal toilet paper company, we will be taking requests and we will be taking capital if anyone's interested. We will be conducting interviews after this. Best we will. Come in. Again, our names are our games are Tabby, Caitlin, and Shelby. Um and we are looking for investors for Michigan University. Our seasonal um toilet paper company. Do not take this idea. It is recorded. It is ours. So they're gonna cut that out. Do you have anything to add? I know you you're a little bit more experienced than us in the game.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

Oh my gosh. I don't even know. I have so many things I could add, but like just really do as many things as possible. I know there's a lot of people that are super, super loyal to one company, but like honestly, just do everything as many different companies because you can go back there any time in your life. Because like this is the only time you can go to so many different places. Like within this, you can change your job every year, which is super cool.

SPEAKER_06 18:27

I'm I mean, I really don't think I mean I don't know, but I would assume companies really wouldn't hold it against you for wanting to go try some growth at that sport. And like I think that not saying that like they should be lucky to have you, but like they should realize that if you go back to that company, that means you really like them and that you're probably gonna stick with you're not gonna be wondering, like, what if I went to another company? And it also speaks volume about those companies' values because if you choose to come back, then it's the proper working environment, you're a good fit, you know, and you could say a million trillion good things about said company because obviously why would you return? I think I think that's enough yapping with Tabby and Nappy. Yeah, we gotta feel I'm pretty done. There's a there's a student panel going on right now. Yes. That we are only 11 minutes late for but we will be attending. No, we will be attending. It has to be in the vlog. It does. Watch the vlog, watch the vlog on the WMU um paper engineering Instagram. Yes. I just just look up W Paper Engineering and it should pop up. Right?

unknown 19:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 19:25

All right. That's the end. That's a wrap. That's that's tapping with tabby about Tappy. We love paper so much. We love Tappy.

SPEAKER_05 19:32

We love Tappy. We on the counter three, we say we love Tappy. Okay. One, two, three.

SPEAKER_06 19:38

We love Tappy. As it sounds like we're saying we love Tabby. Well, that's because you love me, so it's Kate Chelby. With Kate Chelsea.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Hello, everybody. Uh, my name is Jacob Levesque. I am a junior uh chemical engineering major at the University of Maine. And uh welcome to a segment of the Paper 360 podcast. I'm joined by uh Sydney.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

If you'd like to introduce yourself, I'm Sydney Anyaquery. I uh am a Standards Project Coordinator at Tappy. Uh and I am um and I want to appreciate Jacob for having me on. Um we've kind of talked uh in in the past and had some dialogue over email, and you know, I finally got a chance to meet um the famous Jacob. So um it's an honor, man, and I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Awesome, yeah, no problem. We're both at the student summit right now, so it was a good opportunity to connect and uh finally meet a familiar face for sure. Um so the point of this podcast is really gonna be about uh Tappy standards, how to get involved with that, uh, some information that might be helpful, and uh yeah, that's kind of a general review, but uh I kind of want to start. Uh can you kind of talk a little bit about your uh role for Tapie Standards and uh how would you get involved with something like this?

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah, um I think to get a the full picture, you kind of have to go back a little bit with my history. Um I graduated um like as a with a science background, and um I then I got a job after graduation in pharmaceuticals um doing some re some RD stuff there. Um and I was a super technical guy and um I loved science, loved the long uh research papers and articles, and then um you know, with the career change, I uh found Tappy, and Tappy reached out and you know, I was I was uh assigned on to Tappy standards, and you know, at the time I didn't know what like Tappy standards were. And uh after a few months of kind of like learning and figuring it all out, um I realized that they're very technical documents, which I've heard like you've seen and a lot of others listening um can agree that yeah, these are pretty technical pieces of uh article articles. And um, I was like, wait, like this is right on my alley, like it's science base and it's technical, and um you know, I feel like we're kind of making an impact, and um, you know, so it was kind of a fit from the beginning, and I've just been rocking with it ever since. So um that's really kind of how I got involved, and uh I've been loving it ever since. I've been with Tappy for. About a year and a half now. Um, and we're just we're rocking and rolling with standards. So of course.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

For those unfamiliar, can you give kind of a um a background on what standards and tips are like really supposed to be doing? Like what's their function in the industry?

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah, yeah, of course. So ta uh standards are standards and tips are really just kind of test methods. Um, and those test methods can be um implemented in uh whatever process uh the industry or the kind of person on the receiving end um decides to deal with them. And they're like official procedures and test methods and kind of uh rules of the road. Um beware on how to kind of get a product um and really just kind of unifies uh the industry as to like, okay, like this, if you follow these set of like standards and these set of like procedures, you'll get uh you'll get like the same product, right? So like exactly one side, like one company is not making like they think they're making one product the same from like but another company's making a different product and they think they're making it all the same. But like, you know, if we have a unifying piece of like an article that just makes everyone think like puts everyone on the same level, you know, that's the standard, and now we're making the same product. So yeah, uh we just kind of bridged uh knowledge gaps.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Exactly. And I think one of the most important things about standards is I mean, even though they're really technical documents, it's not something you need to be like in the um industry as like a full-time employee quite yet. Like I'm a student involved in uh standards and tips. Uh and I think that's an opportunity that a lot of people uh don't necessarily know about or they look over. Um, but students, I mean, I I really got involved with standards after my uh first internship at SAPI Somerset in uh Scouthegan, Maine. And um the opportunity there, I was a pop lab technician, and I think I learned a lot of test methods there that really helped set a foundation for my interest in standards. Um, so I kind of moved into that role and started reviewing them and uh kind of providing some insights on what I thought made some sense.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

So yeah, I think that's actually a very good point you just made. I mean, you know, um uh the role of the student, like within standards, like it's not all this like very dense material, very dense technical things you have to know. We actually love having that um kind of different perspective of like having the student, you know, to who isn't an industry expert, but you can still review the document and make changes and suggest changes. And you know, a lot of those times those changes can be incorporated. And you know, when Jacob started out and um he was, you know, making suggestions in the in in the documents and they were being added in and revised, and now with the next draft had Jacob's changes in there, and you know, um, you know, Jacob's a student, and um you don't have to be an industry expert to to take part in the review of standards. So I'm I'm glad you brought that up.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Yeah, I think for me it was a really fulfilling opportunity to be able to get involved there and uh each of the committees, I mean, you can see who's involved with them. So for me, it provided some useful connections too. I was able to utilize LinkedIn to the fullest, so to speak, and uh find these people and you know you can get in contact with them and learn even more. And uh, you know, even though I wasn't on co-op or internship at the moment, you know, being able to stay in the industry and stay connected, uh, that's that's definitely been a useful resource for me. Um so yeah. Uh kind of moving on, you've already mentioned a little bit about uh consistency of uh standards and how they provide some uh innovation in the industry. Um can you kind of elaborate on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah, I mean, I would say a large part of it is that our standards are just so rigorously like reviewed and updated. Um and I mean these are peer-reviewed articles, these are peer-reviewed documents, um, and they're regularly updated by industry professionals. Um and there's not the people who are updating these standards. I mean, there's it's an array of people, you know, there's there's no one bias one way or the other. Um, like maybe like per company or you know, whatever. Like there's no it's just a nice collection of of industry experts who kind of create a series of checks and balances and just make it just one um objective document. Uh and I think that's the great thing about standards, and with that, it cannot be implemented in in industry. Um and standards, standards are kind of breathing documents, you know, like it's not something that's written in stone. Like it's as the industry changes, as innovation changes, as as technology changes and advances, standards.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

So that's always happening. So that's definitely something to keep on top of. But yeah, kind of uh piggybacking off of that, um, what are some of the biggest challenges you think you've encountered with this kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Um, yeah, that's a great question. I think um recently I um I would say there's kind of a a drop in uh membership um within our standard specific interest groups, aka SIGs. Um, you know, we're seeing kind of reduced numbers as uh as these industry professionals, the more seasoned ones, retire, um, we're not kind of replacing them. We're not replacing them as fast as we like them to. Uh so you know that that's where the importance of the student comes in, because if we can get students to join join Tappy Standards and join these SIGs and join these review, these reviews of these standards, uh I mean, we can keep the standards going uh on and on and on, you know. But if if if all of our uh industry professionals just kind of retire out and there's no one to replace them, then now we're in some trouble. You know, exactly. It's just important to get students exposed to and students active um in Tappy standards. And again, I have to say I have to give my kudos to Jacob. I mean, he's but he's been a great uh partner in getting students uh A uh aware of standards and B getting them active in standards. And um again, we just appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah, there's been a big initiative for me, at least. Uh I'm the president of our Tappy Student Chapter at University of Maine. And um one of the workshops I was able to hold with my students was talking about standards as well as the scholarship benefits from Tappy that they offer. Um and I know for sure I've gotten at least one or two students starting to think about this, and I think one of them signed up the other day. So, you know, putting the University of Maine on the mark, so to speak. But, you know, I I I I think at the end of the day, like for students, this is a huge opportunity um to really expand their network. And uh I don't think it can be um understated, really, the impact of being able to join one of these. Um yeah, I know it's definitely increased my ability to network with people.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

I mean, you we're essentially putting you in the same room as uh, you know, these the people in industry that you perhaps would want to work with or um you know, uh be colleagues with. I mean, these are, you know, if you're looking for potential employment, I mean, these are the right people to talk to you about. Exactly. You know, like they they work with us, we work with them, and they want to work with students. Yeah, like they asked me specifically, hey, we need more students. I would love to be partnered with students and have a mentorship opportunity or shadow or just you know, just be in more contact with students. Exactly. Um, so I mean they're they're looking and you know they're they don't bite, I promise.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yeah, no, I can attest to that as well. Uh another opportunity too, like even though a lot of them are starting to retire, like as a student, you can network with these people too, just because they're getting out of the industry doesn't mean that they're not going to be a good reference or a good um contact for any questions. I mean, there's still resources that we can use and um learn things from. So I still think that's kind of an important point too. So, how can Tappy standards help students or early career professionals uh as they enter the workforce, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah, I mean, I think there are a plethora of ways that Tappy standards could really help. Um, but I think honestly, the earlier that you get involved and associated with Tappy standards, the better. Um, I think a, I mean, just off of exposure, you know, um, if you see Tappy standards like as a student and maybe like in the classroom environment and in like the undergraduate labs, and you know, you're exposed to this kind of testing uh language and material and processes early. Um, and this is these are the same standards that are being implemented in MILS, you know, in these places that you're gonna end up working at anyway. So if you get exposed to it early and see that material and see that content um uh at a at an earlier stage, uh just by exposure, you know, you're ahead of the game on that.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

100%. I found I I signed up uh for quite a few SIGs, but a lot of them were related to things I'd already seen, but I also signed up for a few that I hadn't really seen yet. Um, kind of in the opportunity of learning about something I didn't know a lot about uh uh so one of them was like uh I think it had something to do with uh sulfate, uh like pulping or something. And like at my internship, like it was it was you know a lot of craft work, so it wasn't like semi-chemical or anything like that. So I am learning about things that I hasn't interacted with necessarily, uh, but being able to review those standards, read the procedures, I'm like, oh, okay, you know, I'm starting to connect dots. So I learned more about the industry just looking at things I've never seen before. But um, another thing too is when I went into my co-op at uh Packaging Corporation of America and uh Philo City, Michigan, I was responsible for a lot of testing there too, and those skills just transferred. So being able to stay active with my testing methods, um, you know, keep up to date with my learning, always asking questions, stuff like that. I mean, it's just things you naturally move along, and I think at the end of the day, it makes me um a better engineer and I'm able to ask questions where it counts. So, you know, for all students kind of looking for more experiences in that realm, this is the perfect place. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yeah. I mean, we kind of offer like a Swiss Army knife of of knowledge and information that you can then um implement into your professional lives and careers. And um, you know, with over 500 uh tappy standards and tips uh useful methods as well. Um, I mean, there's there there's something for everybody out there. There's a flavor for everyone, you know. So exactly. Um and also feel free, this is Jacob uh did, um, you can you don't have to stay in the in just one uh interest category or area of expertise, right? You can dive into uh maybe something that's more like physical properties or um maybe optical properties versus like just strictly chemical. I mean, we have every we have something for everyone for every you know area of interest. So um you can you can you can just have a a charcuterie board up.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Yeah, but yeah, it's not cut and dry at all, which yeah, I mean, for me, I like the flexibility. I mean, as a student too, like I mean, my schedule is really busy and I I think this is an important point to make, but um I don't have a ton of time in my schedule to do every little thing, but you know, these these standards, they're not like so frequent that you can't, you know, still live your life. Like, I mean, I I've reviewed a few here and there, you know, it happens every, you know, once a month or every once in a while. But um, I think as a student, it's an extremely manageable thing to take part in, uh, especially like I said, with all the opportunities it can give you. Um, and it's not something that you're like, you know, you're sweating over every day and night, you know. When I'm like, oh my God, I have an exam tomorrow or you know, something crazy. Uh, you know, it's uh something you could, you know, put off for a day. And when you have free time, you can review it. And you know, I I'm not stressing over it. And it's it's it's something I still do a bit.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

So yeah, yeah. I mean, exactly. Uh, I think a large that's something that kind of that I think kind of scares people a little bit is um the time commitment aspect of it. Uh I mean, I think the time commitment is just how long it takes you to just go through the document. You know, I mean it could be like if you want to quantify it, maybe like I don't know, 30 minutes a week. Yeah. Like just really kind of taking your time through.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Yeah, that's not that yeah. For me, because I haven't read some of these, like, yeah, as a student coming in, um, that's like a first time seeing this. I'll usually give it a read through, kind of digest my my thoughts, and then I'll go through it with like a little bit more of a um like a magnifying glass on it, and I'll see like, hey, did I catch anything now that I missed before? Um, I'll make a note of that, you know. But like, you know, that whole process, you know, like Sydney said, it's like 30 minutes, you know, it doesn't take you that much time. And you know, the impact, uh, there's one for sure that I can think of that I was able to do that um mentioned like an explosion hazard. I can't even remember exactly which which one it was, but and I read that and I was like, geez, that's kind of a crazy thing, you know, to have in a standard. It's it's definitely an important thing to note, but it in my opinion it wasn't noted enough. It was um unbolded, hidden in a paragraph. And you know, I think for an operator or like anybody doing a testing method in in that kind of setting, you know, that's an important thing to be aware of. Like, hey, you make a one one wrong move here, you know, it could result in some drastic consequence. So for me, I was able to, you know, suggest, you know, bolding that, making that warning a lot more noticeable. And you know, in the future that could save somebody's life or you know make a serious impact. So I think for me, even though it was only like 30 minutes of my time, you know, that's definitely worth the effort to put that in there.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

So now I I want to by the way, your comment, your suggestion was incorporated in the next one. I did see that in the final drafts, brother. So we appreciate that. Um and the working group chair was was was more than happy to to make your suggestions uh in the final draft. So I mean again, like it's not um that just kind of goes to show that A, these uh methods are they're breathable documents, they're they're always changing, they're always being updated. Um and B, the role of the student, uh, you know, it could just be something less technical as uh something not as technical as, you know, maybe bolding, a warning statement or bold or something that you think should be formatted differently, or you know, just things like that. Um so I mean the the role of the student in tet in Tappy standards, uh it's it's it's kind of uh it it's up to your level of comfort as well. So yeah. Um so if you want to go deeper in it, you can and get more technical. If you want to remain more surface level, you can. Um so yeah, you know, that's that's the beauty of it as well.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

So yeah, I think that largely depends on how much experience you've had so far. So like I know one of the guys that just signed up from you may and hasn't gone to a co-op quite yet, but you know, really eager to learn about some of these methods and make a difference where he can as well. And for him, I recommended maybe taking the a similar approach to what I was able to do and you know, see things that maybe weren't written the right way or you know, you know, find a typo or something, you know, just just make some like changes in that way. But you know, for for some of the documents I know more about, I can maybe add some technical expertise here and there, but you know, as a student it's not the most important thing to be doing necessarily quite quite yet, you know, but it's still really good to get um involved and make a change in any way that you um think you can or what you feel comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Yep. So in terms of kind of probably getting this close to wrapped up, do you have any like funny stories or anything like that that's happened with the standard, make it lighthearted a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Oh man, um well, you know, standards are serious, no, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get you. Funny story. I I what I will say is that I do have a sense of fulfillment and enjoyment. And especially just being here at Student Summit. This is my first student summit. And um, I've worked with some of these students before, uh, and actually placing a face with a name and seeing people in in person and and like shaking hands and yeah, like, oh, like this is what you look like. You don't you sound like you kind of act totally different uh in person than like over email and just like making those connections and like hearing people's voices and just being in the company of um I mean of the future. It's it's it's a really fulfilling thing, it's really inspiring. And I'm just honored to be here. And and again, Jacob, I I I can't express enough like uh my appreciation of you taking the time to host this podcast with me, man.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Yeah, absolutely. No problem at all.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah, I just I appreciate it. But um, you know, hopefully, you know, standards will be at all student summers student summits uh moving forward. You know, I'm crossing my fingers. Yeah, I agree. And um, you know, again, I just it's a it's a great opportunity. And yeah, you know, I'm I I definitely employ employ anybody who is interested in standards to to reach out to standards at happy.org to learn more. And um, you know, we're always here to support you and you know, just uh stay stay curious, stay involved, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Exactly. Yeah, don't make me be the only student reviewing stand, you know, the standards, right? But you know, at the end of the day, I mean I think we can definitely have a a lot more of a student presence. And um, you know, I think I'm able to help with that wherever I can. But uh, you know, if anybody has any questions that like a student would be more likely to answer, you can always reach out to me too, you know. Um if you have my contact information, you could always look me up on LinkedIn uh and feel free to send me a message. But yeah, I'd be really interested in talking to anybody that's even remotely considering this opportunity um and give them more of a student perspective if if that's something you're looking for. But cool. Well, with that, I think that's about the end of our uh standards podcast. I thank everybody for staying tuned and uh yeah, hopefully I'll see you on a standard committee at some point.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

So I left what Sydney said about being in the company of the future. Our students and young professionals are changing the pulp, paper, and packaging industries every day with their enthusiasm and knowledge. They really are our future. And the more we all can do to help them reach their potential, the brighter our shared future will be. That's what Tapney means by better together. You can help us get there by subscribing to this podcast and by sharing these student perspectives with your customers and colleagues. As always, thanks for listening. Catch you next time on Better Together, the Paper 360 podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Hello everyone, this is Larry Montague, president and CEO of Tappy, the pulk, paper, packaging, tissue, and converting industry's go to resource for news, industry trends, and technical and management information. We hope you enjoy today's Better Together podcast. And remember, there are two types of people in our industry Tappy members and those who should be. Have a great day.