TAPPI Podcast Network

Better Together: Live from 2024 TAPPICon - Episode 1

• Jan Bottiglieri • Episode 27

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Strong attendance, special events, and a sold-out exhibit hall kept the energy high at TAPPICon, held April 28 - May 1 at Cleveland's Huntington Convention Center. Better Together host Jan Bottiglieri was in Cleveland to try to capture that energy at the podcast booth. In this episode, we bring you seven fun short interviews—here's a sampling of what you'll hear:

Bobby Hyde—Application Specialist, Valmet:
"If your heart rate doesn't get up... because you're in an uncomfortable spot, then really at the end of the day, are you learning anything?"

Lu Athnos—Regional Sales Manager, Pulp & Paper, ABB Automation:
"It's not enough just to fix a problem. You have to document that knowledge and you have to be able to share that knowledge in an actionable way."

Peter Kayser—Managing Director, Krafft Walzen:
"I find it personally quite amazing, what this business is capable of doing—to be reinvented for the future."

Sneh Patel—Chief Operating Officer, JMC Paper Tech USA:
"This has been amazing for us as a family. It was our grandfather's dream to open up our own mill again... it's great knowing that we're able to keep that legacy going." 

Elliott Bell—Global Head of Pulp & Paper, Radix Engineering and Software:
"I love pulp and paper... It is some of the most interesting technology, some of the most interesting challenges that you'll see in any industry."

Vera Hallikainen—Development Manager, Finnish Forest Products Engineers' Association:
"I think innovation is the key... while we keep innovating together, I think the future is very bright."

Ludovic Tremblay—Product Expert, CONFORMiT:
"We're talking about taking all the data from the mill—all the valves, all the disconnects, switches, all the breakers—putting 'em in the system and making them work for the plant."

Other resources mentioned on this Episode of Better Together include:

·      Check out Bobby Hyde's free webinar about Tissue Drone Services.

·      Meet amazing women in our industry with ABB's Unstoppable series.

·      Visit Germany's Modellfabrik Papier, an industry consortium working toward climate goals.

·      Access the Finnish Forest Products Engineers' extensive Forest BIoFacts Series.

·      Learn more about TAPPI's Divisions, Committees, and Special Interest Groups.

SPEAKER_09

Welcome to a special mega episode of Better Together. I'm Jan Bodillary, your host and the editor of Paper 360 magazine. Recently I spent some time in Cleveland for Tapicon 2024, and I am here to report that it was an amazing show. But you don't need to take my word for it. While I was there, I did a metric ton of interviews with all sorts of interesting people participating in this year's Tapicon. This episode brings you seven of those on-site interviews. I really hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed speaking to everyone. In this episode, we cover topics from dust to data, from a new mill in Mexico to new ways to save energy during drying. From safety to well, let's just get started, and you can hear it all for yourself. Now I'm here with Bobby Hyde. He's an applications engineer for Valmet, and um I'm really interested in sharing his story with all of you. Bobby, thank you for being here on Better Together.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_09

Um so tell me a little about what you do as an applications engineer and what your industry experience has been like so far.

SPEAKER_04

Um so I I officially took the position within Valmet uh March the 11th, and I've uh uh I like to use the analogy and it cracked some of my colleagues up and has been a new one for them, but it's uh been like drinking from a fire hose for me. Um so you know I've I've been in tissue uh since 2008. Uh worked uh at several different mills, and uh so the transition from what I was doing with Valmet as a product specialist for tissue and solely tissue, uh coming over to the applications world for air systems within Valmet has been a learning curve for me because of the paper and board aspect of it. Right. You know, so it's we we live in our little silo uh within tissue and we normally don't venture out. Uh but I also look at it as going, you know, it's one of those things where if you're not uncomfortable with a position or a a spot that you're in within reason, you're you're not growing in life. And I've I made a a promise to myself that I would attempt to learn one thing new every day. And when it gets to the point to where I feel like I'm not being challenged, then it's time to make a move. Um I had an opportunity, my boss and his boss talked to me earlier in the year and was like, hey, we have this opening coming up. Would you be interested? Well, yeah, because it's it's more of a challenge. You know you start, you know, if your heart rate doesn't get up and your blood pressure doesn't get elevated for you know, because you're in an uncomfortable spot, then really at the end of the day, are you learning anything? Are you being productive?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Um so it's kind of a a weird way to look at things, I understand, but it's uh my way of trying to be a better me and advancing my knowledge.

SPEAKER_09

But I love that um you know uh that represents your experience because a lot of young professionals are looking for exactly the same thing. Some an industry that will challenge them, that will teach them, and that will always provide uh pathways and opportunities.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, so it's uh a very fast moving, whether it be physically, mentally, emotionally even um uh industry. So papers constantly changing. It's very similar, in in my opinion, again, like a computer. You buy technology today, these companies are working on new technology constantly, so what you purchase today next week may be obsolete. Or you know, so it's it's very interesting to me to watch how the industry grows. I was in a mill last week, it was a a board mill, and the mill was built in 1946. So I have this big thing with industrial equipment, and the dryer section on this machine was still gear-driven. And I'm new age, you know, and I'm looking at, oh, where the drives and the motor, like where the what is this? What hold on a minute. May I take a picture? Like I won't analog. Yeah, it's like we're we're playing Snake on a Nokia phone again. Um so it's it's fun to me to see what uh my family came from, if you will.

SPEAKER_09

So my Yeah, you know, I I So you've quite a legacy in the industry, actually.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I wouldn't call it a legacy. We just do what we have to do to to put food on the table and enjoy ourselves. Uh I started in the business uh at at twenty years old.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_04

And it's more of uh I I come to Tappy for the networking aspect. There's guys that are more experienced than me that may work for a different company or we've crossed paths ten years ago.

SPEAKER_09

Right.

SPEAKER_04

I I talked to a guy last night that I met when I very first started in the mill, and I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I'm looking at him, I'm going, where did I know you from? Because, well, I worked at four different, you know, like so we we spent about an hour together last night, but it's still the networking aspect within Tappy that really drives home for me, though the cost is worth the reward here.

SPEAKER_09

I am so glad to hear you say that because I know it's hard to get away from the mill. It's hard for our mill guys to get away. It's hard for our suppliers to, you know, to pull that time away and be here and share that knowledge.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's uh I think I woke up this morning, I had 101 emails that I haven't gotten to. So it's I'm sorry. But a part of that goes back to the drinking from a fire hose thing. Yes. It's uh it's a learning curve. Um, you know, I've had inquiries that came in last week that uh on the weekends I've kind of it's one of those I'm not in the mill anymore. My phone doesn't ring 24-7, so I'm trying to enjoy family time.

SPEAKER_09

Right. But you still as an applications uh engineer, you still get in the mill.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_09

Um what's exciting about dryer systems that you're you're excited to learn more about in your new role?

SPEAKER_04

So in the uh in the past couple of years, uh I've really got heavily into the dust side of things. And part of the applications position is dust systems and uh removal of dust from machine halls. So I've enjoyed that having a going to school for fire science. Yeah. It really intrigues me that you know 90% of the mills out there does that they don't realize what they're playing with has the potential to be as hazardous or flammable or explosive even as gasoline. Right. Uh it's one of the attributes that we we make within paper, especially tissue. Hey, we want it softer. Well, in that aspect, the the softer it is, the more dust you create. Um also with in the applications world, I'm a big health nut. I don't eat healthy by no means.

SPEAKER_09

But um You look pretty fit to me, so thank you.

SPEAKER_04

I uh, you know, we my dad worked in the mill, started in in the paper mill in 03, and we we always had these talks of how can we, you know, longevity of our lives. Hey, standing on the concrete's gonna kill your knees and ankles.

SPEAKER_09

Um, you know, it's that personal sustainability, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_04

And so we were I was constantly looking for advancements within the industry to get me to where I am today, not living my life standing 12 hours on the floor. And dust is dust has a a health aspect about it too. So if the machine hall's filled with dust, you're breathing that stuff in constantly. And what you know, what does that do to our health? I understand that it's not on paper, we can't throw a number at it and say, oh, we're gonna have this much cost savings. But at the end of the day, we look at uh Markau Mill in Elmwood Park, New Jersey that burned to the ground a few years ago, and nobody's gonna come out and say it, I don't think. But that uh I was in that mill two days before it burned. Oh my goodness. And it had layers of dust that was scary, you know. They weren't in bad places, but it was places that we don't look at. Right. Um which is why since uh December of 2020 I was I had been helping Baumet with the dust drone, which I think there's been a ton of questions and interest roaming around the industry. Uh we're still currently uh looking for ways to develop that drone even more. Yeah, because it's a you know really new product for us, and it's kind of an untapped market for that drone. There are people out there using uh inspection drones and just running the prop wash from the drone itself uh to clean piping, ductworks, uh whatever. And uh so I've been working on that since December of 2020 as well.

SPEAKER_09

So you're talking about developing new applications or new um ways to use the tech some of the technologies you already have. If there are listeners out there who are with Mills, should should they just contact you with their ideas or their needs?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, for sure. Shoot uh shoot me an email or even um we can bounce ideas off each other. Uh I think that that's what the product's for. It's for the customers. So if we have their input, then we know we're gonna produce a a product that's 100% focused on those guys.

SPEAKER_09

Absolutely. I think that's terrific. That's you know, the vendor community has such a huge role in our industry doing exactly that.

SPEAKER_04

Yep, they do.

SPEAKER_09

Well, as a younger professional in our industry, um you have a long future ahead of you, especially since you're always looking for those new opportunities. If you could sum up the future of our pulp paper packaging tissue industries in one word, what would the word be?

SPEAKER_04

Impressive.

SPEAKER_09

Nice. Impressive.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_09

Okay. I think that's a great note to end on.

SPEAKER_04

Just the technology in it, it's impressive.

SPEAKER_09

I agree. Well, thanks for being here, Bobby, and telling us about some of that technology. Thank you. I'm here with Lou Athnis of ABB Inc., um, a past guest and someone I always enjoy speaking with. Welcome, Lou. Oh, thank you, Jen. It's always great to be here. Yeah, and by here, you don't mean just at the podcast table, but you mean at TappyCon because ABB has brought its giant truck again, um, which is something I always love to see on the exhibit floor just because it's always so packed with technology and it really makes an impression.

SPEAKER_10

Absolutely. You know, we're committed to the pulp and paper industry. And uh this time we brought over 40 attendees to Tappy Count. And our truck takes over 1,200 square feet of space. And uh we we don't just like to show just pictures, we like to do the show and tell. We like to take some action to show you, do some demo.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I've heard I've heard ABB refer to the truck as the road show, yes, which I think is really cool. And we're here in uh, you know, the home of the rock and roll hall of fame, where when you go to a concert, you always see the show trucks outside of the convention center, and that that reminds me of it a little. You've got your rock and roll road show right here at TappyCon. This is our road show on wheels.

SPEAKER_10

So, anything new inside the big truck this year? Well, normally we have our demo on QCS, DCS, instrumentation, we have our lab equipment, and uh this year we brought in a fish tank. We are actually showcasing an old stainless steel headbox actuator that we can submerge it in water.

SPEAKER_09

So when you say a fish tank, you mean like an actual fish tank and it's full of water, not fish. Uh-huh. It's full of an actuator. Yep, they're fishing. You can have it under the water.

SPEAKER_10

Yes, in the water. Actually, it is a tank we built and uh was water filled and uh with the actuator in there.

SPEAKER_09

I love it. That's really cool. Does it have a name? Like my fish was named Davy.

SPEAKER_10

We actually don't have a fish in there. We have some ducks in there. You know, the jeep ducks. We actually have some ducks floating in there. But no names.

SPEAKER_09

No names yet. Okay, but any mill who acquires one of these actuators is free to name it whatever they want. That's a good idea. So tell me a little more about ABB's presence this year at Tapicon.

SPEAKER_10

Well, we brought in a lot of subject matter experts on showcasing our products, and we have our leadership team here, account management team, and uh we also brought in our digital team. They're talking about sustainability, talking about advanced process control, uh manufacture execution system. So we got a big presence here at Happy County.

SPEAKER_09

So I was in the executive panel this morning, and sustainability, of course, was a big topic, as was digital technologies, and I sense some um I sense some overlap there, right, in using digital technologies to help mills be more sustainable. Is that is that true?

SPEAKER_10

Absolutely. That's that's our goal. We're hoping that we can align with the paper makers' goals, with our automation, with what we're doing. And I heard from the the panel that is the the key, that's the goal for everybody. And uh that's a magic word, sustain sustainability.

SPEAKER_09

And not just sustainability like in a silo, but sustainability as part of the whole operation, as part of hiring, as part of um the use of technology. So it's it's a factor in everything we do in this industry.

SPEAKER_10

Exactly, just like the paper makers, we're being challenged with new talents as well. Yeah. Recruiting, retention, so we have to do our best to attract young talents and keep them. Right.

SPEAKER_09

And so that's where we get that idea that our keynoter talked about, which is giving people a purpose, right? So what if you had to say like what that purpose would be with ABB as a new hire, what how would you define that purpose for the paper industry?

SPEAKER_10

I feel paper is in the blood of a lot of people. That is true. Yeah, that that's why you actually see people been here like for over 60 years, they've been in the paper industry. And we're hoping to create and keep that culture in our new people as well. And we actually we already got students from NC State, Western Michigan, and uh ESF visiting us today. Oh, that's terrific. Yes, yes. They're just amazed at the new technology we're showing, and that keeps them motivated. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like uh uh Rusty talked about putting the the the gaming chair in control rooms. Right, right.

SPEAKER_09

That was Rusty Miller talking about putting gaming chairs in the control rooms of their new mill down in Waco, and you know, it must look really enticing and sound, you know, fun to show up at work and sort of treat it that way, that new technology.

SPEAKER_10

Exactly. We still have a lot of mills, they still have some dated equipment, um, but really to talk about sustainability, to attract talent, we gotta keep up with technology. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09

Well, along those lines, do you have any customer success stories you want to share with us? I because I love those. Talking about using technology in the mills, what can you tell me? A favorite story of yours?

SPEAKER_10

Absolutely, something actually just happened recently in the southeast of the United States. Oh. Where they have our um quality control system and we have implemented predictive maintenance, predictive monitoring there. So we're constantly monitoring data. So one day our service engineer and the subject matter expert got an alert on their phone and in the email showing, oh, the variability of the paper quality just all of a sudden increased. Now they were not rejecting paper. It's still under the threshold, they're still making sellable paper, but this variability variable jumped up. That caught their attention through some investigation, they found out that they actually changed the trim score on the machine. But when you change the trim score, they did not measure it properly and enter the value properly so that the control would provide process response correctly. So by doing this kind of alert, we were being proactive. Did not reject any paper. Being proactive, like they found out what the problem is and they addressed it. That actually since then they even updated the standard operating procedure so that can prevent it from happening again.

SPEAKER_09

Well, that's the key, really, right? I mean, so what you're telling me is uh the mill might not even have noticed the problem. But your subject matter expert did. And did you guys have to go out to the mill and say, hey guys, you know, some we've got this alert, we we need to take a look.

SPEAKER_10

Really, depending on the alert, in this case, just happened that our service technician was on site. So he did some investigation by working with the operators to discover, okay, why did this variable go up? And they actually discovered they they found the problem.

SPEAKER_09

And then you were able to sort of educate the operators on how to prevent it themselves.

SPEAKER_10

Exactly. Oh, that's perfect. And then by updating the uh standard operating procedure, that was prevent it from happening again.

SPEAKER_09

That's one of those things that sometimes gets lost in the shuffle, I think. You know, there's so much happening all the time in a mill that it's not enough to identify a problem, it's not enough just to fix a problem. Then you have to document that knowledge and you have to be able to share that knowledge in an actionable way.

SPEAKER_10

Well said, well said. And uh in the old days, it's corrective maintenance. Right, right. Break and fix. But now we want to get ahead of the game. We want to do predictive maintenance so that we can prevent downtime, prevent failures. This will really help the papermakers to to increase their their bottom line.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, anytime you tell the paper maker we're gonna help you cut down downtime, they're they're gonna be happy with you. Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_10

So how's the show been going for you so far? Very good, exciting. Yeah, yeah. I've been to the women industry, women's summit. Yeah, I was there too.

SPEAKER_09

I saw you there. That was a really fun event. Um, and we had a great turnout this year. I'd love to see, you know, more folks get involved with that uh with with that group because there's always great information coming out.

SPEAKER_10

Exactly. And we have practical action items. We got takeaways that we can work on.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, exactly. Um what's what's some of the other areas that you're involved with uh through Tappy?

SPEAKER_10

Well, I'm a volunteer with the process control division, and uh I am actually uh a chair for a common interest group. Oh, okay. Our group, we've been working together for the last couple years and we create technical information papers for TAPI. Right, the tips. The tips, yes. So these are the standards every paper maker can use. For example, we published the single point dynamic sampling method, the moisture correlation method, and then just very recently we published the basis weight correlation method. Nice. And we're already working on the next one. So it's very exciting. We feel every paper breaker can use these tips, and this will really help them to standardize their process.

SPEAKER_09

That's really that's really great. And let me just stress: this is not something that only ABB is doing for our industry. Anyone is allowed to get involved with these groups, and there are mill people, there are vendor representatives, all working together in a non-competitive way, and then anyone can use the tips. So I I think that's really key. It's it's not just for one mill, it's not just from one vendor, but it's a cooperative effort that helps the industry.

SPEAKER_10

Absolutely, like just within our common interest group, we have people from different vendors, we have paper makers, we all collaborate, we work together, we're passionate about it.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I love I love the passion that's on display here at TapyCon. What do you feel like? I mean, obviously ABB supports your involvement with the special interest group, which is fantastic, but what do you personally gain from that involvement?

SPEAKER_10

Well, I've been with ABB now for over 27 years. Wow. And uh I grew up in the paper industry, and ABB has been supporting me along the way of my career. Um in fact, they just published uh we have a campaign called the Unstoppable Campaign. I saw you, girl, you are unstoppable. Thank you, thank you. So I I am passionate. I talk about papers in your blood. I feel It's in my blood. I just love helping our paper makers. I like to see us staying here, going into the future. I like young people to come into our our group, our team, and we'll work together. So, yes, ABB has been supporting all the effort, the activities we've been putting in because we we're beneficial. Everybody.

SPEAKER_09

Well, before I let you go, I'm gonna ask one question that I like to ask every guest at the event to see some of the different answers. So if I asked you for one word that you feel describes the future of the pulp, paper, packaging, and tissue industries, what would you say? Exciting. I love it. Okay, Lou, thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed speaking with you on Better Together. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure being here.

SPEAKER_10

Thank you, Jan.

SPEAKER_09

And now I'm here with Peter Kaiser. He's a managing director at Kraft Baltzen.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_09

And it says right on the card, you're the steel dryer guys.

SPEAKER_07

We are the steel dryer guys. Yes, exactly. Yes.

SPEAKER_09

Well, thank you for being here at TabbyCon. I know you uh your company has a booth out on the exhibit floor. How's the show going for you so far?

SPEAKER_06

Um, first, very uh thank you very much that we can be part of this show. It's very interesting for us, a very, very high-leveled and high-graded uh audience. And uh the visitors were um uh very uh very um very skilled, very good questions. Uh if you have good questions then you need to have proper answers. Um and this opens then the level for interesting discussion. So it's really a very nice show, and uh I'm looking forward to for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, that's terrific to hear. That's exactly what what we want for our exhibitors to have you know people stopping by with great questions, and you are the ones who bring the experts.

SPEAKER_06

Um yeah, and uh we know that there are a lot of experts around. I wrote uh some minutes ago a uh short report to my to my company, to my colleagues, and um one of my sentences was uh that uh we have a very skilled um uh audience here, and uh the quality of questions, like I said before, is is really good and uh yeah they they understand to to tell to ask the right questions.

SPEAKER_09

Terrific. Well that's what Tappy's all about is that information sharing and knowledge. So I'm glad you're finding that's true. Um tell me what you have at your booth that um you're really excited to bring to the show this year.

SPEAKER_06

Um our main goal here for TAPI and this year is um yeah the our our products, the craft steel dryer, the KSD. Um due to our knowledge, we are uh maybe the company have uh who has delivered by far the most steel dries to the to the United States. Roughly 300 uh uh systems are here in service. Uh nevertheless, we we look for additional business. Of course. Um the States is an interesting market. Um maybe for us, in our perspective, the most interesting market. Um and therefore we try to find a bit of the lucky going west, yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Like a lot of people before in this.

SPEAKER_09

Right, go west, young man.

SPEAKER_07

That's the yeah, I'm an old man, but okay, nevertheless, I'm I'm keen to go to go west here.

SPEAKER_06

And uh yeah, uh we we we try to find here new customers, new projects, new opportunities. Um mainly for steel dryers, like I said, um also for rolls. We'll see what is our name, our brand name, Kraft Waltzen is Kraft Rollers. Um, but uh the steel dryers, well, it's not surprising that we think we have the best product in the in the market.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I would hope that you think that. I hope that every company that's going to be exhibiting here and supplying to our industry thinks that they bring something special.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, we we think so. We also think that we have invented steel dryers in the already in the 60s. And uh now steel dryers have a completely new uh importance in paper industry, uh drying capacity, energy saving, um and uh I think energy saving will be the core driver for for the next for the next decades. Right. And so therefore we think that our product um has some specialties which is unique for steel dryers, not only for dryers compared uh steel to to uh cast to steel, uh, but that we also think that within the steel dryers we have a unique design with unique uh performance uh figures, and this is what we want to tell here, this story.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, because uh you know you talk about energy and and drying certainly is an energy-intensive part of our process, but it's not just about saving money, there's also a real sustainability aspect to it. Is that you find that important to your customers?

SPEAKER_06

Yes, this will be um uh I think in the this discussion is more driven in in Europe uh because we have a totally different system on on energy, uh, energy availability, energy prices. Um also our policy uh is different. Um nevertheless um uh energy saving or not wasting energy um will be yeah, will be one of the main goals um because on wasting uh there is no anyhow no reason why to waste. Uh there are a lot of reasons why to save energy. Um and paper industry has uh special conditions because yeah, it is a basically it's a dewatering machine, yeah, using using a lot of using a lot of energy to take out the water. And uh the city where we are coming from, Düren, uh, is a is a small city in the Cologne-Bonn area in Germany. I call it the hometown of paper and rollers in in Germany. And we will have an institute, uh uh a new scientific institute to work on paper making. So to work on paper making using less water. And in that's terrific. And in the consequence, having less water uh uh on the on the on the first meters on the on the machine, you have to dry simply less. And by by this reducing in uh significantly the use of energy to dry the sheet.

SPEAKER_09

That's really interesting. So the sheet hits the machine at a with less water in it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09

Okay, so there's sort are you introducing drying to a new part of the system to do that?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, um to be there fair, it's not not our approach that we that we work on this. Uh this is done by this institute where we will have maybe a major part in in cooperation, but this is not our our main main goal uh because we are not process engineers. Okay. But um whatever happens to uh to drying uh is affecting our business model. Uh in uh in this uh case quite simple. Um if you uh need to have less steel dryers, this is good for the environment, but this is not good for our company. Yeah, so our our inner environment um is uh let me say it is a bit it gets harmed by this. But okay, uh it does not uh it's not only for ourselves, it's for for you have to see the wider picture. Um so uh we we need to see simply what can we do to have uh our contribution to the next level of paper making, whatever it is, uh, and adapt our business model to this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09

So I would imagine that cooperating with this type of institute not only helps you sort of see what's coming, right, down the future for drying technology, but it helps you uh contribute to what's coming.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09

It helps you learn and contribute.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, absolutely. So it's not only uh be part of the story, yeah, and not uh and and not simply there and see what's what's popping up and then uh it's a bit like then like the like the like the piece of wood where the dog is running and hunting for. Uh we we w we want to throw this piece of wood uh to stay in this picture. And um yeah, this is much more much makes much more fun yeah to to do it like this.

SPEAKER_09

So that's rewarding.

SPEAKER_06

Yes, absolutely. And uh uh there are so much new interesting um uh uh uh ideas also how how to to to win and generate or produce the pulp. And and we even go wider in our thinking uh that we have a project running uh to produce a roll using natural fibers.

SPEAKER_09

Wow.

SPEAKER_06

No more carbon fibers or no more glass fibers, but using really natural fibers to make um a roll.

SPEAKER_09

To make the roll itself?

SPEAKER_06

Yes.

SPEAKER_09

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_06

Yes, this is let me say brand new and and so it'll be ready next month. Yes, for sure. In large large scale production. No, this is um this is an idea we are we are bringing up and we work there together with the university um close to our to our city. And um uh and this is driven by our special situation in this area where we are living. We have coal mining, and this coal mining is closed down in some years, so we have to invent new new opportunities for not only for us for this complete uh for this complete area, and we will have definitely uh new fibers available because this area is somehow recreated, and therefore we will have uh new fibers, and we think about together with the university what can we do with these fibers. And uh one of the ideas is uh to replace yeah, we speak for decarbonization and one of the ideas is uh then to uh substitute steel uh partially by natural fiber. And this is one of the ideas we we are working on.

SPEAKER_09

That's really exciting.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, this is cool. If it works, it's pretty cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_09

And if it doesn't work, you've learned something?

SPEAKER_06

Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Uh I tell the engineers, whatever we do, whatever will be the outcome, you have learned something.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_06

And um so we we see what is the outcome. Uh it's it's open, um, it's development, it's it's science. Um uh and I found I find it personally quite quite amazing what you can do with a most likely traditional business. What this business is capable to do to to be reinvented for the future.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_06

Not only by us for sure, it's by all of them uh working in science on on on pulp creation, on on energy, energy, uh energy um uh generating, producing of roles, and so on, machine design, everything, everything, everything. Um it's fascinating how much potential you have in a in a 150 years old, yeah, 150, 2005 200 years old tradition of paper making, yeah.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I don't think that you'd have that 200 year uh history if you weren't already interested in uh uh evolving, reinventing, um uh sort of always looking towards the next great thing.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely. It is uh when you see uh yeah what happened in in early uh 19th century, so 1800 and and something um uh and what is what is going on uh by today and also when you see these fantastic high-speed machines and big machines uh for uh for example what I know, uh the the two-pound machines in Germany, in in Arlen and also in Locht. It is let me say uh fascinating to see this these um machines in its complete yeah uh operating with with the uh with the control system, with paper making, with the steam, with the power, with everything. This is a fan uh fantastic masterpiece, yeah, right of technology.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, well I can tell you're passionate about great design, you're passionate about delivering results for customers.

SPEAKER_06

This is a passion, but also you there's a value. There's a value behind it. And this value is not only a money value, this is also um an a kind of value appreciation for their work.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_06

And this is something um where the people should think more about. This is not only valid for paper industry, but this is more or less for valid for everything.

SPEAKER_09

I love it. Thank you so much for joining me today, Peter. I really enjoyed speaking.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you for this invitation. It was a big pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_09

And now I'm here with Snay Patel, he's COO of JMC Paper Tech USA. Uh welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_09

My pleasure. Now, last year I got to speak with your CEO, who is your sister Yeisha. Correct. Um, and I really enjoyed speaking with her on the podcast. She was telling me about your new uh mill project in Mexico. So I was hoping you could give us a little update on how that's going.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, definitely. So the paper mill project is going well. Uh we are expecting to open maybe in September or October. Um, you know, uh as things go, uh originally we were supposed to open in April, but as projects go, there's always the delay.

SPEAKER_09

My gosh, it's the same story. I'm sure it will be familiar to our listeners.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, of course. But you know, it's definitely been amazing uh being on the other side of the of the project for the first time in our lives. Well at least in my life. And it definitely helps me understand more about what we do as a company. Uh definitely gets a deeper understanding of the machinery as well.

SPEAKER_09

Mm-hmm. I think that's great. Now, this is the first mill that you've that your company has built, correct?

SPEAKER_03

Correct. This is our first mill ever.

SPEAKER_09

Wow. Well, welcome to the world of paper making, I guess. What kind of grades are you gonna be making at the mill?

SPEAKER_03

Um so we'll be making craft paper, uh mainly Tusliner and medium.

SPEAKER_09

Nice. Okay. Um so you say the m the project's been delayed, that's a very common tale. What sort of uh challenges have you come across so far?

SPEAKER_03

Um so mainly uh, you know, at it the paper mill being in Mexico, you'd assume that elder regulations and everything would be much easier than the states. But surprisingly, they are more strict than you would expect.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Some somehow they're stricter than they are in the states with some of the uh electrical and other regulations.

SPEAKER_10

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

So understanding those regulations and you know dealing with uh the Mexican government while also not speaking any Spanish is definitely a uh challenge. But you know, little by little we were able to move forward and get to this step.

SPEAKER_09

I'm I'm glad that's a great attitude. Not not giving up just trying to figure it out as you go and um making progress all along the way.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, no, definitely, and you know one of the biggest things that I noticed was uh that somehow it was great to be there as a new company because not only are other people uh especially the Mexican locals supporting us, but I noticed that the government also supported us a lot more due to due to the the closeness of the uh US and Mexican governments. Yes. So they were very supportive of us and they've been able to help us out much more than we expected.

SPEAKER_09

Well that kind of community support is really important, I think. Even with larger companies, you know, mills are always a part of their local communities, uh, and it's an important aspect to remember.

SPEAKER_03

And uh, you know, another thing is uh one of the biggest reasons uh we came when we came to Tapicon this year, we realized we're not only coming as a machinery supplier, we're coming as a paper maker this time.

SPEAKER_09

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

So being in this side of the fence, uh so to speak, um, is definitely different for an exhibition like this since now we actually have to pay attention to the conferences and go around and and understand what everyone's talking about.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I love that attitude. I think that's really great. Um, what made JMC want to step over that line and see it from the other side?

SPEAKER_03

So, you know, we are new to the to the market of the US and South American markets. So at the time we were deciding what is the best way that we can showcase what what our capabilities are as a company. So we came to the conclusion that, you know, if we have our own mill, not only will it provide a sort of good showcase for the customers, it'll also be um a supporting hand in us when we go and present ourselves to these companies, showing that hey, not only are we selling these machines, but we actually using one ourselves.

SPEAKER_09

Right. So uh what makes your machines different, I guess, at JMC? Because you do supply the machines as well as now having your own mill.

SPEAKER_03

Correct, yes. So uh what makes them different really is I'm sure technology-wise, they're you know it's it's similar to what uh other companies are doing as the technology in paper industry is is fairly similar unless you get to the very technical, technical side of things. Um other than that, it's I think the the team is is our strong standpoint. We have a team that you know is always supportive and is available 24-7, especially since we have a team in India and in the US.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So we're available around the clock for any support that our customers may need.

SPEAKER_09

Well, speaking of your team, the fact that the CEO is your sister is probably not a coincidence. No. It's not like you showed up at your new job and you're like, Yesha, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_03

No, definitely. It's a uh it's a family company. So actually, my grandfather um was the first one who started us into the industry in 1972. So actually my family has had a paper mill, uh which is what we started off with was a paper mill in India. Unfortunately, due to um situations that that happened in India, uh they were had to, you know, break uh shut down the machine, and then we moved into the manufacturing of machinery at that point.

SPEAKER_09

Okay, so you kind of took that knowledge that you already had and found a new way to apply it.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. So this is uh another thing with opening this mill, and it's very um how do I put this? It's a it's an amazing thing for us as a family because it was our grandfather's dream to open up our own mill again and to do it, you know, better than last time.

SPEAKER_09

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So it's definitely great, you know, being able to do that. And uh unfortunately he's not here with us anymore to see it happen, but it's great knowing that you know we're able to keep that legacy going.

SPEAKER_09

So, oh how are you keeping busy at the show so far?

SPEAKER_03

Um, so far it's definitely been great. You know, we've had a lot of visitors at our sp at our booth and just going around to different of the sessions has been great. Uh we were I was able to go to the uh POTC uh committee meeting, and that was great, even though um it was very technical and some of those uh words flew right over my head.

SPEAKER_09

But well you have to I think you have to challenge yourself in order to grow. So you have to challenge yourself. You don't want to go into a session and hear just the same old stuff you already know.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly. And actually that's what um I signed up for to join the committee this time.

SPEAKER_09

Terrific.

SPEAKER_03

Because uh I realize, you know, even though I may not understand everything now, if I spend more time here, I'll be able to understand more and learn more.

SPEAKER_09

What's the point? And it's you know, it's part of Tappy. There's not an extra cost for joining a committee, and they're really, like you said, they're they're nitty gritty. Yes. They're they get into the real technical, actionable stuff that you can do at your mill. So there's my question that I've been asking every guest so far. If you have to think about the future, not just of your own mill, but of the industry in general, what's one word that really comes to mind when thinking about the future?

SPEAKER_03

One word. Um honestly it's surprising, but I think growth, because growth is something that's gonna happen. And I know everyone talks about how the paper industry is going down, but in reality it's really not.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

With uh it the sure, you know, things like the magazines have gone down, things like writing and printing have gone down, but if you look at boxes and craft paper, those Those numbers are skyrocketing me.

SPEAKER_09

Well, thank you so much for being here, Snay. I really appreciate you being here on Better Together.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_09

Now I'd like to welcome Elliot Bell. He is the global head of pulp and paper for Radix Engineering and Software. Welcome. Thanks for coming on to Better Together.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Jen. Good afternoon.

SPEAKER_09

Good afternoon. So can you tell me a little about what Radix does for the industry?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, so we at Redix are a group up to 1,800 engineers, uh, analytical, data scientists, and just highly motivated personnel to help our customers in a data-driven pursuit of process optimization.

SPEAKER_09

Wow. That sounds very important. How would you characterize that, you know, with your customers? How do you just what does a what does a project look like with a customer?

SPEAKER_01

So for most of our customers, our projects are really focused in three areas. We are one of the world's leaders in data historian services. We service multiple different vendors. We are agnostic. Therefore, we work with AWS, with Azure, with uh with Pi, Avivapi, with um anyone else, all of all of the different vendors. But so if someone has a data governance issue, whether they are a long-term user of data and therefore need to have their systems cleaned up, pie tags renamed, um dashboards converted, we will do an assistant with all of those things. But if they need to have data collected at the field level and route it into a historian, and then use that data to generate analytical systems, use those data systems to generate a gen AI or other AI functions, or even if you just want someone who can help you implement or sustain your existing APCs, your existing process control, we do all of those areas of taking data and using that data to drive process optimization and especially to drive transformation at scale. So once we really understand your business and you have multiple different sites, we can expand solutions across your multiple sites to really help you see a benefit in the bottom line.

SPEAKER_09

Well, I think it's interesting because a lot of mills, as they grow, as technology changes, as you said, when they're purchased by other companies, systems aren't redone always, they're just sort of cobbled together, added onto, added onto again. And I would imagine that after a while it can become unmanageable.

SPEAKER_01

I would not say unmanageable, I'll say it will become um labor intensive. And and absolutely, matter of fact, what's even honestly a scarier thought is that when you look at a single mill, you have multiple areas within that single mill. You also have over the course of time many, many different process engineers, different process control engineers, different IT personnel. Right. And quite often, whether it's a PLC configuration, DCS configuration, Pi, MES system, most of those systems have multiple different um developmental periods and developmental standards. Therefore, having someone who can go through, sort through all of those differences, and translate all of that into a single standard going forward really allows our customers to then be able to highly extract a much greater amount of value once all of their data is aligned in the same naming structure, in in a more efficient, um, more efficient data capture structure, all of those things cause a drag over time. So our efforts quite often will will help alleviate that drag, but then more than just alleviating the data drag from poor or lack of governance over time, we're generally able to then take the data using analytics, using AI tools, using interviews with personnel, help them define problems that have really created a bottleneck in their process or long-term problems in their process. Once we are able to define those problems, we also are able to use other tools to help them define solutions and long-term controls going forward.

SPEAKER_09

So you might not be there to tell them which course to take, but you can help them see all the opportunities available and then help them choose which one might be best for them.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. We we we are not focused on selling products. We are focused on helping our customers through long-term relationships achieve their maximum productivity.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, that's a great summation. I love that. What what are some of if you can think of a customer that you've helped that they were able to just say, wow, I didn't know we'd be able to do that. Is there a story that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01

Um, there are a lot. I would be scared without without permission, but let's let's just say that we work with Canadian customers, we work with American customers, we work with Brazilian customers, and we have long-term relationships due to our success.

SPEAKER_09

Okay, and you've definitely seen those types of things happen, right?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Um even today I have ran into some uh highly ranked individuals of a Canadian customer that thank me for my efforts and both for feedback and problem definition, but also in helping them understand their path forward.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, that's terrific. And by today you mean right here at Tapicon.

SPEAKER_01

Right here at TapyCon.

SPEAKER_09

That's great, that's great to hear. Um, it's been a really busy event. Yes, um, which is great for everybody, I think. Uh how's the experience been for you so far?

SPEAKER_01

It has been very busy, as you say. So, of course, being the global leader for Pope and Paper, uh, and having been a member of Tappy for quite a few years now.

SPEAKER_09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I have quite a lot of friends and quite a lot of associates here at Tappy, and I've seen an awful lot of them today.

SPEAKER_09

What would you say to a young engineer considering a career in pulp and paper?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely do it. I love pulp and paper because of the diversity of the problems that we address. It is um some of the most interesting technology, some of the most interesting um challenges that you will see in in any industry. And the the thing is you have to be committed to learning. Right. You have to be committed to relationships because you will need relationships within the mill, within your company, sometimes within your neighborhood, with your both your other OEMs or your the people who combine because no project is a sole supplier or a sole area.

SPEAKER_09

Always, you know, ancillary helpers and other things that the mill needs.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09

Okay, so every guest that I've had so far uh on the podcast at TabbyCon, I've asked them to look towards the future. And if you could think of one word that describes how you feel about the future of pulp paper packaging and tissue, what would that one word be?

SPEAKER_01

Change. All right. Um, I mean, in in part of it is is absolute obvious. You know, I've been in the industry for 31 years and we've changed drastically.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I think the rate of change is actually going to increase.

SPEAKER_09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And you know, it's already so fast. It it it is, but there's some things that are actually fairly slow where we resist change. And I think what you will see is I actually believe that you will see that the paper industry gets more acceptable of change, and therefore, as we become more acceptable of change, we will actually speed up our improvement and our innovations.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, I agree. And then as you had said, the optimization that is possible.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_09

Awesome. Well, thank you, Elliot Bell. I've really enjoyed talking to you and I learned something.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you again.

SPEAKER_09

I'm here now with Vera Halekainen. She's with the Finnish Forest Products Engineers Association. So, Vera, I'm gonna ask you, what are you doing here at TappyCon?

SPEAKER_08

Well, thanks for having me, Jan. That's a very good question. Um, our association uh has a long history with Tappy. We've worked um, I think decades with Tappy. So we are obviously here to support the event and to get connections uh for our uh association and choose to get to know the the products and the companies and the people and just have a good time.

SPEAKER_09

I think I mean TappyCon is about all of those things. I think one thing people might not realize about Tappy is that we do have a lot of connections with other associations, with international organizations, and that's part of our outreach to connect the industry.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, yeah, that's the same with us. Like we like to work together with different uh associations, different organizations internationally and both domestically in Finland as well. So I think that's uh a good way to exchange innovations and uh thoughts and ideas and so forth. So 100%. Nothing grows in a vacuum.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, exactly. Right? So um, first of all, I know this is a little bit of a goofy question, but I I pronounced it Finnish Forest Products Engineers Association. How do you pronounce the organization in Finnish? I love it. I love the sound of Finnish, I really do. It's an excellent language. Um so tell me, you have a lot of educational resources. We have you here as part of our Tappy Central bookstore area where we're offering uh our educational resources and we also offer um uh some of your products through our bookstore. Yeah. But there is really so much that you offer and it's so accessible. Can you tell us a little more about the uh the products that you have?

SPEAKER_08

Absolutely. Um so where it originates is the papermaking science and technology book series, which we actually uh created together with Tappy originally, um, I think in the end of the 90s or something. It's I mean it's a le it's a a long history.

SPEAKER_09

Uh that book series has been very important.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, and it's widely used in the industry and it's like 21 volumes uh strong series of books. But we've created that into a digital format now around four years ago. So we launched a uh a digital planning platform called uh Forest Biofacts in uh 2020. So most of the the uh the content that we have in the book series uh is available online on through that. But there's a lot of additional information that's not available in the book book series because obviously uh industry has changed in the past 20-30 years. So a little bit. So there's a lot of things that are not available in the books, in the physical copies. So we've added um these new innovations like fiber uh textile fibers and nanomaterials and so forth uh in the uh in the digital uh environment.

SPEAKER_09

What I think one thing I think is really interesting about the Forest Biofax series is that it's so much more interactive than just a print book.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's uh more accessible for a lot of different people with a lot of different backgrounds because uh for me who is new in the industry, um I find it very fascinating and very easy to to access because there's a lot of um sort of introductory information there. Information for people who don't know the industry, who want to get to know it more, not want to learn the basics, but there's also the sort of the hard stuff for the people who are deep in into the industry and who have uh a long background and are very nourishable in the uh technical stuff and and all that and that type of thing. So it's there's something for everyone.

SPEAKER_09

Right. So at Tapicon, we love to encourage uh attendees to sort of customize their program. Go to this, you can go to any session, choose the ones that are most relevant to you. I see the same thing in the Forest Firefax series where you can really choose your path, choose your choose your adventure, so to speak.

SPEAKER_08

Absolutely, yeah. You can create your own paths from the 16 different themes that we have there. But we've uh if you are new to the industry or you don't really know what to information to to access or what what to find there, we have created a couple of different uh learning paths, like guided learning paths. So there's a few of different options, uh how to learn and how to to actually read the materials or get get familiar with the with the materials.

SPEAKER_09

Right. And now you've added um from what I understand sort of a new function of searchability.

SPEAKER_08

Mm-hmm. Yeah, well there's a um uh sort of added feature or a better search engine there that since we have the the book series there as PDFs but but also additional material as I mentioned. So you can now search both.

SPEAKER_09

You can access the the So you've even digitized the book series.

SPEAKER_08

Well they are there in b PDF format, so yeah, kind of there. They kind of in additional format, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09

You can search and then there's the other um interactive uh sort of there's more um it's like there's video content.

SPEAKER_08

There's videos, yeah. There's uh we have a podcast series as well there. Wait, a podcast series?

SPEAKER_02

Podcasts are amazing.

SPEAKER_08

Absolutely. Yeah, well we launched it um maybe a year and a half ago. Yeah, so that's available there. Uh we arrange arrange um webinars, so all the webinar recordings are there as well. So there's a lot of different media and a lot of different ways to to learn and and we try to keep it so that uh everyone can can sort of find their own way of learning and that's that's available there.

SPEAKER_09

You have like sixteen, is it sixteen different subjects?

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, sixteen different themes that are there.

SPEAKER_09

Wow, just give me a few tap hits.

SPEAKER_08

Oh so there's like natural all sixteen, right? Alphabetically. Well, there's like um uh sort of natural fibers are there, and man-made fiber products, uh there's sustainability, there's forestry, there's supply chain, um, there's nanomaterials, there's paper making, paper physics.

SPEAKER_09

Um you really do cover everything.

SPEAKER_08

Absolutely, yeah. The whole value chain is there covered.

SPEAKER_09

What has been the most interesting thing, as someone kind of new to our industry, what's been some of the most interesting things you've learned about our industry?

SPEAKER_08

Just how broad it is. I mean, I I obviously coming from Finland, uh forest industry is very big there. So I grew up in the middle of that. I mean, my family has a long history in working in the forest industry, but I didn't really know how many things are actually innovated and in uh and done within the industry, from I don't know, medical stuff from from textiles to obviously the obvious ones, papers and and cardboards and things like that. But it's just the the sheer uh volume of everything that's being done within the industry has kind of caught me by surprise.

SPEAKER_09

I agree, and we're discovering and exploring new markets all the time for our products.

SPEAKER_08

Absolutely, and I think that's the most fascinating thing because I I don't have the imagination even to to think well what's going to become what what comes next.

SPEAKER_09

Fortunately, there are a lot of people in our industry who do have great imaginations. Um and I think it's just great that we are able to um connect with with uh the Finnish engineers association and with all the resources that you offer to kind of put on the map for our members as well.

SPEAKER_08

Yeah, I think it's been a very nice collaboration, um, like both ways as well, that we are very happy to to have have this cooperation with with Tappy that we can share like through these events or or other types of uh activities that we do. So yeah, Tappy's happy about it too.

SPEAKER_09

Um so I'm gonna put a link to the Forest Biofacts website um right on the landing page for this episode. But before I let you go, I would really like your perspective, particularly as someone who's a little new to our industry, um when you think about the future of packaging, tissue, pulp, paper, what's a word that comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_08

Innovation. I think that's something I've seen so many innovative people, but also like concrete uh things that have been created that weren't existing even a couple of years ago, even a couple of weeks ago, maybe. So I think innovation is the key, and I think it's it's the key to to going forward in this industry as well. So while we keep innovating together, I think the future is very bright.

SPEAKER_09

Oh my gosh. That is a pull quote right there. Innovating together. Um on that note, I'm gonna thank you very thank you very much for stopping by the podcast table today. And I hope people will check out Forest Biofax. There's so much cool stuff there. Thank you, Jan. Well, now I'm excited to speak with Ludo Trembly. He's a product expert for Conformit. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Jan. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah. So you told me that this is your first TapyCon, and I got all excited.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it is. It is. It's a great experience so far.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, that's great to hear. Tell me a little about what's been happening at the booth and what made the Conformit want to come and exhibit a Tapicon.

SPEAKER_05

Um that's actually a pretty good story. So last year we were ex uh we were at PPSA and also at Pac West. And that's the guys, uh, other vendors over there that said, you guys work a lot with the pulp and paper industry. You should go to TapyCon. It's the biggest show around. And so we looked it up, and yeah, it is the biggest thing. And so like that from there on it was a no-brainer. It was just like, yeah, we gotta be there, and it's so far it's been great.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, that's terrific. That's terrific. Now you were kind of hinting that at your booth you have one message that you're trying to hammer home. Let me know what it is.

SPEAKER_05

So right now, so in the industry for the pulp and paper, uh, if you look at the last like 20 years, like like health and safety has been getting really, really good. Like incidents have been going way, way down. But one thing that hasn't changed is serious injuries and fatalities, like SIFs and hippos. So these kind of incidents, they're life-changing events, they affect everyone. And one of the major uh ways to prevent those is lockout tag out. And that's like with conformity, we've been doing a lot of things in safety for the past 35 years. But full for pulp and paper, lockout tag out has always been our biggest vendor. So we wanted to bring that but make sure that every single pulp and paper plant that's around has the ability to move to the best possible lockout tagout solution. And there is.

SPEAKER_09

Yeah, and there really is something that is a procedure that's used at every mail.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_09

And is extremely important for safety.

SPEAKER_05

Well, not only for safety, for production as well, because I mean you run the machine, right? You stop it, you lock it out, you repair it, unlock it, then put it back into production. So if lockout tag Out it is inefficient, that means longer downtime. That either means less money or less maintenance because depending on the company you're working with, it's either you get the machine at this time and we take it back at that time, you do whatever you want in the in the middle, or other companies go, okay, you do whatever you need to do and we'll take it back after. So we're yes, we're doing this for safety, but also for operations because we truly believe that efficient lockout tag out can actually drive better production.

SPEAKER_09

Well that's great because that's what every mill is interested in, right?

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. That's I mean, that's we're here that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_09

Right. So if you let's say you've you've been contacted by a mill, they think you might be able to help them, you would I'm assuming do a site visit. And take walk me through it. What would you talk to the mill about? What would you be looking for as far as ways you could help?

SPEAKER_05

So typically the first couple things we're gonna look for is whether they have lockout tag out because it's still surprising that today that some mills don't have lockout tag out implemented. So but we'll typically look for like do they have something in place? Are they having problems with it? Because the reality is when you're managing thousands of lockout tagout sheets, it's barely impossible, like barely possible to do it with Red and Excel. So we'll be looking like, okay, do they have these lockout tagout sheets? Do they currently maintain them? Like I'll give you an example another example. Like if I were to tell you I've got like an automated seatbelt, it's great when you're wearing a seatbelt. But if you're not wearing one, it's kind of a hindrance. So if they're not, if they don't have lockout tagout yet, like they might not be a great fit for us because they're just not there in their head. So that's where we give me we're gonna be looking for. Like, do they have lockout tag out? Are they having problems related to maintenance of those lockey tagout sheets? And then get into okay, can we help you? Are we a good fit for you guys? Because the reality is we want to help people. So if they don't need help, it's fine. Like they're yeah, they can do whatever they want, and like we'll be there if they need help outside.

SPEAKER_09

If the need arises, sure. So, what kind of systems do you provide? Tell me a little more about exactly what Conformit does.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, so uh in general, uh it's a complete safety solution. So we do uh like events management and syntax access near misses, we'll do inspection management, risk analysis, permit to work, uh, and we'll do mostly lockout tag out in this specific vertical. So when it comes to lockout tag out, the main thing is that we're not talking about Word documents or Excel spreadsheets, where it's just text. We're talking about taking all the data from the mail, all the valves, all the disconnect switches, all the breakers, putting them in the system and making them work for the plant. So you want to build a lockout tag out procedure that needs this valve and this breaker, you just pick them from the system, put them on the sheet, and every time you print it, it always has the latest information instead of it being just a copy of a Word document sitting on the desktop. So it can be continually updated, continually added to Absolutely by anyone, pretty much it's it so intuitive and simple to use that it could be done by anyone that has, let's say I'm not gonna talk about ability, but the right to do so from a mill perspective. Like if you're uh an authorized person as per your lockout tag out program, then you can go and do the changes in the system. As to what the way it works typically today, you're an authorized person, but you don't know like where the word documents are, so you're not gonna make these changes.

SPEAKER_09

So if you're a product expert and it says right here on your fancy card that you are I am, yes. If you're a product expert, I'm assuming that you get to speak with the mills, work with the mills directly.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely. So I actually I've I started my career at the conform twelve years 12 years ago. It's been a well, it's been a while. And the first five years of my career, that's what I used to do. Go to Mills, just write the lockout tagout sheets for them. So actually go look at the machine, like figure out which devices were used, and then build these lockout tagout sheets and deliver the final product to them, which was a system complete with all their lockout tagout procedure. Uh then I moved over to more of a product development side of things where the goal was to make sure that the system that we were building really fit the need of our clientele.

SPEAKER_09

And can those systems be sort of individualized for the different locations?

SPEAKER_05

So there's high configurability, making sure that each mill can tailor it to what they need, but we're not into custom. Uh like I don't know if you're familiar with like SAP systems or like big ERPs, you basically buy the system vanilla and it doesn't work, and then you pay and pay and pay until you get it to work. And we're like on an opposite side, we're kind of a Netflix approach where we build a system, it works, it's highly configurable, people can make the changes they need to they need to make.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_05

And if something's not possible, they just tell us we built into we build it into the system and release it to every single one of our clients at once. So that way great ideas from Cascade maybe might trickle down to West Rock and awesome ideas from IP will go to GP to JP.

SPEAKER_09

So that's terrific because when you're talking about A, safety and B optimization, yeah. It really matters that kind of everybody can benefit from what you learn.

SPEAKER_05

There's no reason to hold back on like sharing about safety.

SPEAKER_09

It's it's just 100% agree with you. Yeah. So do you have any favorite like customer stories? You don't have to name the customer. I understand. But any anything where you were able to help a customer where they were just thrilled with the results or surprised by the results?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, sure. Uh that's actually the client that we worked with a couple months ago. So these guys had Word documents, like thousands of them. So the job to get these Word documents from like their current status to like any system, whether it's conformative or something else, it's a lot of work because you have you have to extract that data, like put it back into another system, then rebuild the documents from there. It's just like that's what I used to do, right? When I like worked as a consultant, like I would go to plants and spend months on end doing that exact thing. So we built a tool that basically takes care of all that. So this AI system. Oh wow. It basically reads all the documents, extract the data, so extract the machine, all the devices, and then rebuilds the procedure in the system. So this client, they sent us like 3,000 of their lockout tag out sheets, and a week later we sent them back a link like here's the system with all your sheets in it. They had to spend roughly an hour with us just to tell us, well, we think this is that information, is that correct? Yes, okay, perfect. Like we have this right. So this is like why we're actually here in the public paper industry. We know that there's all like probably somewhere around like half a million lockout tag out sheets just for the mills. And we know that people are kind of stuck with them. Like they're they're stuck with the solution they have today because moving them to anything else is just too much work. But now there's a solution for that. It's possible now to get out of Word in Excel.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, well, I can just tell by your face that you're really excited about that capability. That's great. So is that something you'll be talking about at your booth?

SPEAKER_05

I actually we did a new technology showcase on that today.

SPEAKER_09

Oh, terrific.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and that's definitely something that we were talking about at the booth.

SPEAKER_09

Great. Well, I hope you I hope you find a lot of interest because it sounds like a huge time saver.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, it is. It is massive.

SPEAKER_09

So when we were getting ready, when you first sat down at the table, we were talking a little bit about safety and sort of the phenomenon that we used to see back in the old days where it was very common to see our mill guys with nine fingers or, you know, whatever. What kind of changes have you seen as a safety, you know, safety related professional, let's say? What kind what have you seen?

SPEAKER_05

I'd say the major, there's a shift, right? Where people are moving away from kind of reactive safety into preventive safety. And we see a lot of that where people are trying to get ahead of the ahead of the wave to kind of see blows coming and try to deflect them or actually like prevent them from happening. So I've seen a lot of that, like really just people wanted to make safety a priority. Like I remember like um Justin, if you're listening, Justin Dow from the Valley Mail from International Paper. He told me there nothing says safety like someone missing digits. And I like struck me, and it is so true. Like we see that in the mail so much where people that had accidents, had terrible things happen to them, they go into safety because they care. But now, like I think more people care, so it's no longer only these people that care about safety, it's everyone.

SPEAKER_09

Right. I think that's coming a lot from leadership. We heard that partly this morning in our um in our executive panel and in our keynote from Bob Chapman about caring for people, truly caring for people. And I don't know how any facility can say they truly care about their people unless they provide them with the ultimate safety environment that they can.

SPEAKER_05

That's absolutely uh yeah, I completely agree with that.

SPEAKER_09

I love it. Okay, before I let you go, I've been asking the same question of all my guests. And now you've been re you've been involved with the pulp and paper industry, did you say 12 years now? Twelve years? Okay. When you think about the future of our industry, pulp, paper, packaging, tissue, what's one word that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_05

Ooh, that's a good question. Um This is my job. You're doing it very well. Um one word for the pulp and paper, the future of the pulp and paper industry. I'd say creativity.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_05

There's a lot of opportunity, I think, to like I I remember someone this morning talking about like paper making is like part art, part science.

SPEAKER_09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

I I think there's a lot of things that are possible in in this industry to really bring it to the next level.

SPEAKER_09

That's terrific. You're the first person to say creativity. Actually, every person I've asked that had a different word that comes to mind. That's good. And it's just painting a really bright picture of our future.

SPEAKER_05

That means there's a lot of possibility there.

SPEAKER_09

I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Ludo. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05

It was a blast. Thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_09

Creativity, positivity, and a bright future for the industries we serve. I can't think of a better note to end on. Many thanks to Bobby, Lou, Peter, Snay, Elliot, Vera, and Ludo for making a chat with Better Together part of their TappyCon experience. And stay tuned, we will be posting a second TappyCon 2024 episode soon, featuring more lively interviews with working industry professionals just like you. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and share. This podcast is just one more way Tappy and Paper 360 work to connect you with peers and experts throughout our industry, and we would truly appreciate your support. Because through Tappy, we really are better together. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00

Hello everyone, this is Larry Montague, president and CEO of Tappy, the pulp, paper, packaging, tissue, and converting industry's go to resource for news, industry trends, and technical and management information. We hope you enjoy today's Better Together podcast. And remember, there are two types of people in our industry Tappy members and those who should be. Have a great day.