Better Together: Live from 2023 TAPPICon - Episode 2

TAPPICon 2023 was a huge success with attendees and exhibitors. Boasting high attendance and a top-notch program, the conference offered plenty for attendees, including a multi-track technical program and an exhibit floor packed with new technology. The event took place April 22 - 26, 2023 at Cobb Galleria in Atlanta, GA.

Better Together Host Jan Bottiglieri was right there at TAPPICon interviewing exhibitors and attendees to capture some of that energy live, while it was happening. The energy and enthusiasm from the folks she met make these interviews lively and informative.

Here are the four professionals you'll meet on this episode of "Better Together"--and just a taste of what they'll be sharing in our conversation:

• Calvin Bembry, Clearwater Paper: "You can't recruit for this industry unless you can really explain to someone what they'll be doing. Recruiters paint pictures."
• Rebecca Boyd, Jedson Engineering: "You can simulate a lot of things virtually that you'd never want to do in person. We make that (technology) part of our work process."
• Alos Almeida, Deublin: "We've been hearing more and more about energy efficiency—not just in North America, but everywhere."
• Tony Tobatto and Tony Magnusen, ABB: "Working with (pulp and paper) customers in 2020—utilizing everything they had on site, trying to do more with less—led us to where we are today."

Here are a few links related to this episode that may interest listeners:

• Learn about the Women in Industry (WIN) Division, and access presentations from past events
• Check out opportunities available with TAPPI's subject-specific Technical Committees
• Read the popular Paper360° article, "Nine Things Your Company Can Do to Find, Keep, and Support Young Talent"

Check out the 2023 highlight real on tappicon.org, then bookmark for updates on next year's TAPPICon, April 28 - May 1, 2024, in Cleveland, OH

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the Paper 360 Podcast, Better Together, Conversations with Innovative Leaders. We've got a super cool episode for you today captured live from Tapicon in Atlanta, Georgia, in April 2023. Tapicon 2023 was a huge success with attendees and exhibitors alike. We had almost 1,700 attendees, more than 130 exhibitors packing the show floor, and 135 speakers covering topics of critical interest to every sector of our amazing industry. The event was held at Cobb Galleria in Atlanta, Georgia. In addition to the exhibit and technical sessions, there were networking opportunities, extra events, so much more. If you were there, you know. And if you missed it, well, I hope this podcast will capture just a bit of that live show energy for you. For this second Live from Tapicon 2023 episode, I welcome four guests. First, we talk to Calvin Bembry of Clearwater Paper, who shares expert insight on attracting young people to our industry. Next up, Rebecca Boyd from Jetson Engineering talks about how we can grow innovation when we're constantly fighting fires. Then I learn about some critical machinery components from Elos Almida of Dublin. And finally, we'll hear from Tony Tabato and Tony Magnuson, both from ABB, who tell us about the three or four Ps and what PH really stands for. I'm so glad you're tuning into this episode of Better Together. Let's get in the Wayback Machine and head back to Tapicon 2023. Okay, now I'm here with Calvin Bembry from Clearwater Paper. He's the National Talent Acquisition Manager, and I'm really excited to have you on Better Together. Thanks for coming by, Calvin.

SPEAKER_06 1:58

Thank you very much. I uh thank you for the invitation. And I look forward to chatting with you today.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Absolutely. So, what exactly does a national talent acquisition manager do?

SPEAKER_06 2:10

Uh you know, our our task really is to build a story of why people want to come work for Clearwater Paper. Um it comes down, a lot of people call it recruiting, but recruiting is more than just scanning LinkedIn or looking at Indeed or whatever. Recruiting is really about telling the story, right? People want to know why is your company a great place to come and work. And recruiting is about telling the story. It's about coming to events like this and bringing our team members and letting them meet other people and building the story.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah. Oh, I love that aspect. Not only telling the story, but first you have to kind of build the story and live the story, right? So you have something to tell.

SPEAKER_06 2:54

Absolutely. My dad used to have a saying, he said, I would rather see a sermon than to hear one any day.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

And so I think for us it's not just telling people what a great place, but letting them see and meet the people.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

I love that. Um, and you said that Clearwater was also um on site for the Women's Summit. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_06 3:13

Yes, we were a premium gift sponsor for the Women's Summit win, and we were gave out little Bluetooth speakers that were encased in wood.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Oh, that's fantastic. I haven't seen any of those. People must be keeping them pretty close to the vest.

SPEAKER_06 3:26

We'll get you one. I will bring you one. We'll bring you one.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

So I love that idea. Well, paper and wood goes together.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

It goes together, yes, it does.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

I love it. So, did you hear anything exciting at the Women's Summit?

SPEAKER_06 3:39

It's just great to see that many talented women in the room discussing the advancement for women in industry. Yes. That in itself is encouraging. Nothing else, you know, when you look at that, it's like, okay, what what else are we talking about? You know, and you had you had great uh representation across the board internationally.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

And that is so important, I think, especially for younger people that are coming into the industry to know that they're coming into a safe place where they can grow and matriculate and have mentors.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Oh, yeah, that's been really important. We have the you know, Tappy Mentor Match program. Um, I really like that. You must talk to a lot of young people.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

I do. I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

How do you get them interested not only in Clearwater, but first in the idea of making paper in the first place?

SPEAKER_06 4:35

You know, it goes back to telling a story. Um I remember engaging a group of students back in the fall, and they were amazed at one, the paper making process, but then all the things that paper, you know, the things that go into making it and and how you, if you're a mechanical engineer, you can do this. If you're an electrical, you can do it, if you're a chimney. So now they're like, oh wow, never knew that. And so that's how we that's how we tell the story.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Kelvin, I think it's amazing for for a product group that touches literally every life, every day.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yes, most people only scratch the surface of what paper is, how it's made, how it's distributed. Um, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_06 5:21

It is. It's uh I think people don't really think about it. They go grab a napkin. They don't think about how was this made or a paper towel.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Okay, I'll tell you the truth. I think about it all the time. You know, when I get a paper grocery bag, I'm always flipping it over. My husband's like, what are you doing? I'm gonna see if the list because some of them will have the mill where it's made right on the bottom. I love to hear. I've been to this mill.

SPEAKER_06 5:44

I've been to that mill, there's a barcode, and if you talk to engineers, they will always flip it over and look at it and say, I know when that was made. So there we go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

So you talk about narrative, about um, you know, sharing that narrative. What are some of the important parts of the Clearwater story that you would like people to know?

SPEAKER_06 6:07

Clearwater is a great company. Uh we have very strong leadership. Uh, we have a great culture. Um we are we're not the biggest company in the world, but at the same time, we do a really nice job of producing great products that impact people's lives every day. Um our organization is always looking for you know great talent uh because we have great people.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:38

And great people like to attract other great people.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Ain't that the truth?

SPEAKER_06 6:42

Right, that makes it fun.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

How many, what's your um total employee base at Clearwater?

SPEAKER_06 6:47

Ooh. I think we have about three, about three thousand employees. Oh maybe a little bit over here.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Okay. So that's a lot of great people.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

Yeah, it's it's a lot of great people, and each one of those persons has a story, right? Wow. When we talk about Clearwater, we just tell them tell your story.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Yeah. You know, we're doing the same thing here at Tappy, where we're trying to capture on site some of these videos about tell your tappy story.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

You know? I like it.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

I like it too.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

I like it too. Um how well then let's invent a little bit of a story here.

SPEAKER_06 7:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Um, as you're looking forward, um, you know, you were this premium sponsor for the Women's Summit. You're here at now at TappyCon meeting people. What are some things you could see, some of the next chapters you might see in the story that Tappy and Clearwater can tell together?

SPEAKER_06 7:41

You know, I um we we brought a really great group of professionals here. Uh almost 21 individuals.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 7:53

And um it allowed us to really branch out and touch a lot of different companies, competitors, vendors. It also allowed them to get to know us a little more. And I think the networking and the tearing down of barriers while we were building up relationships, I don't think you can you you can't reproduce that anywhere. So this is a great venue to do things like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

So well, that is music to my ears. That is not only a story but a song. I love it.

SPEAKER_06 8:24

I'm not much of a musician. Don't ask me to sing.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I won't ask you to sing. Um, actually, I should ask you to sing and then like have that be on the Patreon where people have to pay extra.

SPEAKER_06 8:34

If you want everybody to turn this off immediately, go ahead and ask me to sing. And I'm like, oh no, sir. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

But I will ask you this. Yes. So you're in recruitment, um, and you might not be on the mill floor actually watching the machines turn.

SPEAKER_06 8:50

I spent a fair amount of time.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06 8:52

Okay, then then I'm I'm a techie guy. I like to I like to know is is you can't recruit unless you can ex uh really explain to someone what it is they're going to be doing, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 9:04

So I have to tell you what you're gonna do while I'm talking to you so you have a better understanding of it. Again, recruiters paint pictures. That's what we do. Really good ones. You know, we're not just selling you a dollar about we paint pictures.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Well, I would think that the clearest path to disappointment is to misrepresent the position you're offering.

SPEAKER_06 9:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

So yeah, you do have to know. Well, then taking that knowledge, taking that techie uh perspective, you make paper. What do you see ahead that we can't do yet as paper makers, but that you think we might be able to do or should be working on? What do you see for the future?

SPEAKER_06 9:46

You know, that's a great question. Um I would hate to limit the capability of this industry with a limited answer.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 9:58

So I would say that I love it. I would say that there's a lot smarter people out there in RD, just across the board, right? Yeah, that probably have things that they're thinking about three, four, five years down the road that I could not even imagine or wrap my man around. I mean, think about the electric vehicle. Yeah. Somebody thought about that 40 years ago.

unknown 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:22

And it's just now coming into full manufacturing force today. Sure. So somewhere, somebody sitting there with a piece of paper saying this could be a someday. That's the guy you need to talk to about that.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

I love it. I love it. And you never know where those stories are gonna lead, right?

SPEAKER_06 10:40

You never know where those stories are gonna lead. Right. And how the story ends.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Well, that is a fantastic note for us to end on. But before I let you go, um can you just give our listeners an idea of if they're looking to attract young people to their mills, to their companies, what is a great message about our industry that helps with that?

SPEAKER_06 11:08

If you want to work for a company that impacts people's lives and literally touches every person of our society on a daily basis, this is a great industry to not only enter but to grow and then also bring the next generation in. Because we literally touch everybody in the world on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

I can't argue with that. Calvin, thank you so much for stopping by. It's been really fun to speak with you.

SPEAKER_06 11:43

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Hey, welcome back. I'm here now with Rebecca Boyd. She's a professional engineer and a project manager with Jetson Engineering. Thanks for stopping by the podcast booth, Rebecca. Thank you so much for speaking with me. Yeah, absolutely. So you're a project manager. Tell me how you manage projects in the pulp and paper industry. Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Okay. So the secret is everybody just leaned in really close, right? Um, I tell you what, though, I think the pulp and paper industry has a lot of special challenges when it comes to executing projects. True. A lot of our customers are seeing this big gap in experience. And so they're hiring in new project engineers, but they maybe don't have the connections and the experience to know who to call when something comes up. Right. Right. Like, oh, I've got this problem, but I don't know what to do with that. And so that's one of the places I think that we help the most is just we have a breadth of knowledge and we have a lot of contacts and we're willing to have conversations. There's no PO, it's not like a lawyer, right? Like we're oh, Rebecca's calling pitching. Yeah, right, right. It's not like that. So um I think that that can help. But I um one of the most important things I've found when executing projects is really making sure that the scope is defined, that everybody has is clear on their expectations. Right. What is it that you want to see from this? Um, that people are asking questions and being curious. So instead of just saying, yes, we'll install this piece of equipment, asking why. Why do you think you need this? And then really building a team culture so that the people that are working together genuinely have a little bit of care for one another. And that way you just get that extra making sure that you can pull them out of the ditch if you need to.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

You know what I mean? Absolutely. Well, this is really interesting for me to hear because now I'm wondering have you ever worked with a customer and you you encourage them to ask those questions and you ask why you exhibit your own curiosity, and you find that that sort of examination changes the scope a little?

SPEAKER_02 14:19

I will tell you, I have canceled projects on my like by asking that, right? And I think that it's important to build trust in those situations and say, I know that's what you think you want to do. You want to pay me to do this, but you really don't. Have you thought about doing it this way? Wow. And at the end of the day, we're a bunch of people trying to do the right thing and trying to do, you know, we I want that customer to be successful, whether it's with me or with, you know, somebody who it has a specialty that I don't have. And so that's important to me. It's really dear to my heart that we that we focus on that.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

That's terrific to hear. You know, I was just speaking with another guest about how much the industry does rely on its vendors to sort of provide that guidance. You know, our mill guys, they're so busy all the time. They are so put upon. It's a it's a very, you know, it's a nonstop industry and a nonstop environment for them. I think that's really helpful to be able to have that trust.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

It's really important. And I, you know, I've sat through some really good presentations about the importance of innovation. And that's one of those things that the MIL has a really hard time doing because they're constantly fighting fires. Yeah. And when you're in that firefighting mode, literally or figuratively, sometimes hopefully figuratively, um, you you can't you can't take the time to like sit back and think about it. That's one of the reasons I liked coming to conferences like this, because I feel like you've got all of these new ideas coming at you. And then like if you peek in my little notebook there, you'll see like jotted in all the margins. Like, what do we do about this? How about this? I think that those are the the type of things that you just need to break. You need to get away from the typical, and then you can let the ideas flow.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Kind of freshen your thinking a little, right? Yeah. So that's great to hear about TapyCon. Tell me a little more about your TapyCon experience. Well, it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Um, there's been some really good topics. I've enjoyed the focus on sustainability this year. I love that we're finally moving. So this is, I mean, my third TapyCon because we've only we before that it was paper and tissue, but um I like that we've we're transitioning from talking about how we're not perceived well to actually coming up with actions to help solve that, right? So, okay, maybe we don't have the best reputation in our industry, but here's how we're gonna fix it. Right. And the focus on sustainability is a big part of that.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

I completely agree. And I've been hearing a lot that it's very important to new hires, that it's a great way to attract those um young professionals to an industry where they can see that they can make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Right. It's they're making a positive impact. And I think that that is very critical to our younger generation right now. They they're gonna make a lot of their decisions based on that.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Yeah, that's absolutely true. That's exactly what I've been hearing. So are you an exhibitor here at the at Teppican?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yes, actually. So um Jetson does have a booth this year. We've actually got a pretty fun uh so we brought our Bin Technologies manager. Okay. And so he presented in the new technology showcase on XR. XR is a new term for me, but apparently it's like the combination of all things augmented and virtual reality. Oh, okay. Well, I definitely want to hear more about this. So um, and we have that set up at our booth. He's been quite the draw of people like actually getting in. So the augmented reality, you you put on the hollow lens and you can you can see. So, what our customers have found it really useful for is in Brownfield sites, they can actually go out in the field and see the piping where it's gonna be in the pipe rack, right? So that's been really valuable. And then the virtual reality side of it is you know, you can be anywhere. You don't have to be out in the field, and you can walk through it and reach your hand out and turn valves. And um, so it's been a lot of fun. We we actually forgot um our yard game for the big top reception last night. Big top reception was a lot of fun. It was tons of games going on on the floor. So we uh we have Beat Saber downloaded on the VR wherever they're playing it. I need to practice. Okay. I was not very good.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Well, I will just say that might have been a little humble brag stuck in there, snuck in there because it's like saying, Oh, Jetson can think on a dime and we'll come up with that solution. That's right. We got you covered. Don't worry. We got you covered with our amazing XR. XR, yeah. Amazing XR. Yeah. This is kind of like a robot. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

I know. I know. But it is it's it's fun and more than fun and like it's practical, right? It's one of those things that I really see. We I started this by talking about like the experience gap, right? So I I really see it helping in training for operators one day. So if you have that virtual reality, especially the younger generation, they've got everybody's got their little Oculus at home that they play with, right? If we can come up with a way to help that be applicable in like a VR setting, yeah, I think it would really that's much better than reading a manual.

SPEAKER_03 20:15

And talk about a safety net. I mean, you know, it's scary to come into your first mill and see all that heavy equipment, the steam and the rotating machinery. Um can I stand here? Yeah, but can I stand here? Can I touch this? It's dangerous. It is. So just from a point of view of getting that comfort level on a new hire, this seems to be something that's would be really important. Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

And I love the idea of using it for safety as well. Yeah. Because you can simulate a lot of things virtually that you would never want to do in person, right? And see how they react.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

So tell me a little about how that might work in the field. Let's say a customer calls with a problem, and what would make you think, oh, this is a great, this is a great situation where XR can really help us and help our customer.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

So what we've found, honestly, is we've just made it part of our work process. So if we're doing a job to build a new electrical room, or we're gonna install a skit or a pump, or any, I mean, all the way to a brand new tissue machine. We model all of that. And wow. In the past, that model has been done like in a NABIS work setting where you can all look at it on the computer, but now we add in that VR AR aspect and it becomes real. Right. And we just get honestly, it it pays for itself because our reviews are so much better. It's so much easier for somebody to say, Sure, like, oh, that hand valve needs to be turned, you know? So you've used it. Yes, absolutely. How immersive does it feel? So the AR I'm much more comfortable with because you can kind of see like what's around you, right? When you put on the holo lens. The virtual reality is one of those where you kind of have to be careful because you can get off centered almost. It's like you get a little wobbly in the knees.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Feel like you're really there.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Oh, that is so cool. So if I'm if I'm looking at the, you know, the top of the superstructure, and then I look down, I'm like, oh I am pretty far up. So I have to remind myself that I'm no, I'm still in the conference room. That's awesome. What do what do your customers like best about it? They really like the the re the real feel of it. So, you know, a lot of operations and maintenance, they're not they're not used to reading P and IDs or piping drawings. Right. And so we got them used to the 3D space with like a Navis Works. And that's okay, but being able to do it on their own, being able to walk, walk into a virtual reality where they can move around and check out the areas that are important to them instead of somebody else leading them through it, right? And our reviews, just the comments and the everything that you get out of it, it's awesome because you can tag it while you're in there. Oh so like you can And then if you come back, is the tag still there? Yeah, the tag's still there. So like you make these issues while you're doing the review. You're not dependent on somebody over there writing notes. Right. It's actually in there. So you take out a lot of potential for error as well. We try to. No one's perfect, but yeah, we're that's our goal.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Well, I think that's been really fun to learn about. And I now I'm definitely gonna have to stop by the booth and check that out. And this is one of the cool things about Tapicon is that you you know, you can't you don't just walk the floor past a bunch of static booths with you know sullen people standing behind them. There's there's machinery, there's equipment, there's little giveaways, there's robots, there's all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah. It is really cool. Before I let you go, just tell me one really quick thing. What is one of your favorite customer comments that you have ever gotten about the use of XR?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Goodness. I will say that one of my favorite comments is okay, now I need you to do this for so-and-so. Oh, that's nice to hear. People experience in themselves and then they want to pass it along.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

What better endorsement?

SPEAKER_02 24:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Awesome. Well, Jetson is cool. You are cool. Thank you for stopping by the podcast. It's been really fun to chat with you, Rebecca. Thank you so much, Jen. Let's take a quick break. I'd like you to know about an event coming this fall from our sister association, ABTCP, in Brazil. ABTCP is preparing for its 55th Pulp and Paper International Congress. Sponsored by ABTCP, the Brazilian Pulp and Paper Technical Association, the Congress will be held in person with the goal of further strengthening the already consistent network of relationships in the sector and to add new members to it. Innovation as the pillar of circularity in the pulp and paper industry will be the central theme of the event. ABTCP's 55th Annual Congress is Latin America's largest meeting of the forest-based industry production chain. This exciting event will take place October 17th through the 19th at the Novotel Center Norte in Sao Paulo. For more information about ABTCP's 55th Pulp and Paper International Congress, visit www.abtcp2023.org.br. Again, that's abtcp2023.org.br. See you there. We're here now with Alos Elmita from Dublin. Um and I'd just like to say thank you for coming on the podcast, Alos. It's great to have you.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Thank you for bringing me here. I'm uh very excited, and uh the show has been terrific. So I'm really excited to share the news and then talking talk more about with you.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

That's great. That's the best kind of news we can have. So you're global market manager for paper and corrugating. And I know Dublin makes rotary unions, steam joints. Tell me what those are, where I can find them, and what they do.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

That's a good question. Um so basically seam joints are you know a device that helps transferring you know fluid from a stationary um part to a rotating. So when you think about transferring fluids in a paper machine, there is a lot of dryer cans that are rotating. And then the dryer cans they are heated by a seam. So basically, what it is happening is you're just transferring, you're transferring that seam to a dryer can, and then that condensate that will, you know, you are transferring heat uh to the web, to the paper web, and then it will generate some condensate, and you have to remove the condensate. Uh so you need to do it that reliably, and then that avoid any kind of leaks, and uh and then it will help enhance your production and productivity of the machine. So basically, in a simple term, you will see a seam joint in all the entire dryer section of your machine. It's uh it's uh there are over, you know, depending on the machine, you know, 50 m 50 dryer cans and 50 seam joints.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

So what I'm hearing is what are they? Important.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Where are they? Everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah. Exactly. So they are extremely important, and uh designing them up uh properly, that's extremely important. And then uh having the best design, making sure that you because you can enhance productivity with them as well, and you can avoid any you know failures and maintenance nightmare. So it's uh it is extremely um important and we call at Dublin is a mission critical application. Uh so if you don't have seam joints, you don't have seam to the dryer cans, and then you don't have what? Paper.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

Well, I think um that sounds like it uh plays a part in so much of paper production. I would also imagine uh I would also imagine that it has a lot to do with energy efficiency. Exactly. The efficiency of the dryer units themselves.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah, that's a uh again another great point because um we hear more and more about energy and then energy efficiency and it's not only in North America, but also across the globe, you know, especially what with what's happening in uh in in Europe and then um volatility, you know, prices going up. You want to have a more efficient machine. So it's uh it we play an important role on helping um energy and uh and in reducing energy, reducing steam conduction uh consumption as much as possible. So and then that it keeps with production and productivity of the machine.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Well, one common refrain that I've been hearing at TapyCon everywhere in the in every session is the industry's sustainability profile. So would you say steam joints have anything to do with sustainability on a machine?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I think so. I mean we are uh if you think about a steam joint, see uh what is what is it doing? It's also sealing. And uh what it does, it sealed make it avoids any leakage, you know, you don't want to see seal licks all over the machine, which is a waste, you know, basically of energy. So we're pretty much integrated with uh you know sustainability. And being part of this company, we've been focusing a lot on sustainable efforts and our ourselves as well. So that's terrific. Yeah, so it's uh and then pro you know it's it's uh it's it's a lot of sustainability involved. And we in the paper, we know that being sustainable, we are a sustainable you know industry, and that's uh the goal. And then we're gonna help the companies, you know, um achieve their you know any sustainability efforts that they might have.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

That is super critical. Yeah. So I absolutely admit that you've had to educate me a little. Do you find sometimes you even have to educate your customers on really the potential of what you can do for them?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

So Jen, this is a very uh uh that's that's something that we we try to do. It's um we see a huge gap nowadays in this industry, as you're probably familiar with, uh, you know, generations, and we see that um there is a lot of young people coming in and joining the industry. And uh what we try to do is educate them. And even during this show, which uh was a fantastic show, I would say, and we are uh we we brought our display, our drum display, and then everyone that was staying there, we were explaining the behavior of condensate, excluding of steam, and then how it works inside the dryer. So and and talking with customers as well. We we need to help them and educating themselves so that they can understand that they're making a good decision. And uh I would say, you know, a good and decision with us, I would say hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

So you can bring your equipment right to your booth and have customers come by.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Exactly. So what we brought in was uh we have this RAM display that they can watch it and then see all this behavior. We also have a cutaway of uh sim joint. So uh if people are interested interested, they can just stop there. We can go through all this uh this uh the the component, explain piece by piece. Um it can take a long time. It's a very interesting piece of equipment and very important as well with a lot of technology features. Uh so um you know they they can stop by and they've been stopping by. We've been uh talking with people all the day and and nonstop. It's been fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

That's terrific. That's great to hear. So are there any other ways that you would like to get involved with TAPI or other ways that you'd like to help the industry?

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah, so uh what I think it's um it's our mission being here, you know, and then also uh trying to be more engaged, especially with committees and uh, you know, and being members also that you know that might be you know um a way to help and then engage with uh with this whole community and with this paper industry, which is which is also small in a ways, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:19

And uh all the time, you know, we think of it as such a big industry, yeah. Top employer in 45 out of 50 states. And yet when you come to Tapican, it feels small because everyone knows each other. There are so many networks here that sort of intersect. I hear that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, Jen. So it's uh it is a small community, it's a big industry, but it's a small community, and then uh but it that's make makes the the industry also magical and and uh interesting, and this industry is amazing. I I have to say that uh such engaging uh industry. You learn so much. You never you've never done. You were always learning, and then that's what makes I think it's special, and and you know, you were always trying to find something new.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

That's I love that attitude. I love that. Um so let me ask you this. You've talked to a lot of customers at the show, um, and you have a lot of different ways you can help your customers. Do you have kind of any favorite recent stories about something you did for a customer that really surprised them, really knocked their socks off?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

So uh as far as this show, I would say we uh I'll tell you that having them uh you know, we have we had a uh one customer who was uh interested in learning more, and they are young people again, and and they've never seen, you know, let's say a dryer can uh or what happens inside the dryer can. So we uh we educated them and then explained uh the you know the magic and what happens. It's not a black box, there is something, some some you know, engineering and concepts and then which it was really good. Uh so very, you know, very very nice to to have those. And I'll tell you, I like it and I enjoyed talking with uh a lot of customers, um, you know, senior customers, and we I did that. Um, but I especially enjoyed talking with the young uh professionals. I really enjoyed it because that was uh you can see the spark in their eyes when they are learning something new, and then the engagement that they showed was uh you know they wanted to learn. And this is uh what it I think it makes uh unique. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

I think the paper uh and pulp industry, tissue industry, packaging industry is a little bit unique in how much we rely on the vendor community to do you know a lot of that training, to do a lot of the research in new products to really help the custom, you know, because the our customers paper mills are so capital intensive, they're continually operating. There's there's never a dull moment, never a down moment. And I think the industry just sort of relies on vendors to be able to help them troubleshoot, help them find opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

And then Jen, uh, we came back now. Uh we were just last week finishing an in a complete installation uh in a paper mill, which was uh you know very intensive, uh very big paper mill, and we put out a lot of efforts and contributing with the with the with the with the with the with the meal and explaining then and going through all the details, making sure that we can address and and yeah, it's uh it it it it is really you know vendor and uh you know and then customer, you know, basically we we work together. And that's what I tell when I talk with the customers, uh, and it is not like uh you know, I want to win this. I think we want to make this should work, and then we're gonna be making this should work together. So make sure that we are all part of the same team. And uh that's really what I really, you know, when I talk, it's a solution. We are provider of solution. And I, you know, I I can speak that uh that's what Dublin is really about, making sure that in the end we have a smile in the face and then also a pro you know productivity.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

I love that. But I I I think that's a great attitude that mills and vendors really need to form those kinds of partnerships or else the opportunities are lost.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Exactly. And then partnership is key. If you don't have a partner, um forget about it, right? You you don't have a business. Right. So that's why I think you know, I believe and I trust on having them and working together. We are partnered, let's do this together, and then you know, that's uh we will make this uh to work it.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Yeah, well, with that thought, before I let you go, let me ask you one a little bit of a tricky question. Oh my god. So if you really want to form a partnership with a customer, what is the one thing that a mill can do to help you feel like a partner?

SPEAKER_01 36:51

So that's a that's a trick question. I mean, not so tricky, I would say. One thing is that that we need to do is work together. I mean, it's just uh, you know, we uh making sure that we are partners, we are trying to get things done. So it's uh, you know, let's do it together and uh we will we will communicate. Yeah, I mean it that's really key, you know, just uh proper communication, as you said. Uh let but you know, again, working together as a team. I would say in the end is a team of work.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

I love it. All right. Well, thank you very much, Elos, and thank you to Dublin for um helping us the industry and helping us achieve our best.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Okay, thank you, Jen. Thank you very much, okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Well, right now on Better Together, I'm with Tony and Tony. I've got Tony Tabato, he's a business development manager on the service side, and I've got Tony Magnuson, who's a lead technical expert. They're both with ABB, and they're gonna tell me a little bit about how Tapicon's going for them. What's up, guys?

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Thanks, Jan. Good morning.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Lovely, Jan. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

So, how's Tapicon been going for you guys personally so far?

SPEAKER_05 38:01

Go ahead, Tabana. It's been going great. Yeah, I mean, we're excited to be here. Um it's uh it's really a perfect opportunity for us to showcase some of the things we've been working on and kind of what led us to this point. Um I'd say it's uh you know, it's a collaboration. There's some of our um one of our um channel partners here that has really helped us release a new product. And so um it's just a great opportunity to get in front of customers, get in front of our guys, and and and spend some time together.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

That's terrific. And Tony, you've been having a good show too.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Um phenomenal show. You know, uh one word that comes to mind just to echo everything Tabata said was just collaboration. It's a great time to meet with, you know, colleagues within the industry, um, colleagues within ABB, you know, our channel partners, our customers, and really understand what the market's looking at, where it's going, and how we can help. And it's just a great time to share uh best practices and you know what's good for the industry and really where it's going.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Cool. So, Tony, as a lead technical expert, what what's your customer interaction like, you know, on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

That's a great question. So day to day I work with customers and channels, um, vetting out applications, providing solutions, uh, walking down applications, of course, and really trying to give them a better understanding of their measurement and providing them indisputable data. Um and that really what led us here today with some of the things that we're offering in terms of giving them better measurement and good indisputable data and verification methods, uh, mainly around pH control and targets. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Well, Tony Jabato, you mentioned a new product. Tell us a little about that. And is it in the big do I have to go in the big truck to see it?

SPEAKER_05 39:38

It's sitting there right now, but uh, you know, it's on wheels, so we can wheel it wherever, and that's kind of the benefit and purpose of it. Um we're actually releasing two different things today at Tapicon. So I should say this week at TapyCon. So the first thing is a tangible item, it's called the portable pH meter. Um, and Tony Magnus can really explain better as to what brought us to designing it and creating it. It's great. But we partnered um together and also released on the service side a pH package that we'll put together um with the pH portable pH meter to give a full solution, full service solution for pH probe installed base. And so that's that's really what we're releasing this week. Um and so from the service side, the pH care package is it's revolutionary. It's it's nothing, something that nobody in the industry is doing. Um it's basically serve service on the pH probe side.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

Well, you talk about your installed base, and ABB has been a stalwart of the industry for so long. Um, that must be a pretty big base.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

It is, and I'd like to touch on that a little bit. You know, it something funny happened in 2020. Um, and a lot of serious things happened in 2020, but one of the more funnier things that happened in 2020 is that the pulp and paper industry was literally on a roll. Yes. Um people were hoarding toilet paper, as you remember, and you know, so many different uh things that caused us to change the way we um behave and our lifestyle. And of course, as you know, everyone had to stay home. So shipment of products, um, which includes paper products, right? Um, increase in production. And we saw a lot of our customers, specifically pulp and paper, uh, trying to meet those demands. And so uh working with them in 2020, going through mitigation uh practices, understanding how they operate, uh, utilizing you know everything they have on site and trying to get do more with less, if you will, sure really led us to where we are today in terms of how we can um, you know, better manage our operation in terms of pH control and targets. And to echo what Tabato was talking about, the portable pH meter that we have is really a like-for-like um verification system uh that we developed uh with uh some of our accounts in pulp and paper. Uh as you just mentioned, you know, we're we're not new to pulp and paper. We've been doing it for a long time. Uh ABB has been manufacturing pH probes, especially for those tough, harsh conditions for over 70 years.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Wow. And just it's a long time, man.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

It is a long time. And uh and so just working with our customers hand in hand in close collaboration allowed us to really develop something new that they love and appreciate uh because it really allows them to generate that indisputable data which keeps them in control, which makes better product at a lower cost and uh and saves time and alleviates that permanent headache that we allude to um in one of our articles we released this week as well.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

So permanent headache. Um that's pH. It is pH. Well, you know, it's funny because pH is a scale and a parameter that really is even familiar even to consumers at some point, like from a base to an acid. Um what are some of the problems that could happen in a mill if that pH is off balance?

SPEAKER_00 42:57

You know, so many things, uh Jana, that's a great question. So, you know, pH and understanding the principle of pH, it's in pulp and paper, it's process dependent. Um that pH probe is actually controlling chemical feed and the pulp and paper process for both breakdown of the wood and coagulation of the pulp to be able to roll out on paper. And so understanding your dosing of chemicals really is critical for number one, uh protecting your major assets within the mill, Yankee dryers, you know, with the big one, uh, your associated valves and other mechanical devices, and then reducing your chemical cost. There is an inherent cost um for operating a pulp and paper mill uh with a very large investment with chemicals. And we've seen with some of the accounts that we've worked with in that close collaboration arena that we're saving them 10, 15% of their total chemical cost being able to operate within control around pH. And um and I think that really speaks to what we're doing here with a portable pH meter and also with the care package, just making sure everyone's Right. When you can uh uh trust uh a pH number that's controlling uh a major investment and a major part of the process.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

Well, you you know, again, you talk about the paper industry being on a roll as machine speeds increase, as capacities increase. Even a small upset doesn't take long for it to become a big problem, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:28

You're exactly right. Those targets are very small, you know, depending on the stages, whether you're in the D zero, D1, or attractive stages, depending if you're bleaching or not, you could see targets set with a half a pH range or two to three tenths of a range of a pH. So anywhere from 5.2 to 5.5 or you know down in two, you know, the uh pH of two where you're at two and a half to two point eight, those are very tight ranges and very close targets. And having an accurate and reliable measurement is critical to make sure you're maintaining those targets.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

That's terrific. So tell me a little again about really from that 70-year history, what kind of changes have you seen in the way you work with customers? You talked about collaboration. Has that changed over the years? Like has that dynamic grown or changed, developed somehow?

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Well, I think the big part of our success is through our channels. And that's, you know, one of our channels is here today, uh, this week, uh, which is Rawson. And, you know, understanding our customers' needs, I say this all the time, it puts us in a better position to provide solutions, you know. And so over the 70 years, you know, things change. Customers say all the time, uh, you know, process hadn't changed in 20 years, you know, we've been doing the same thing for the last 20 years. But nothing is constant. Everything is changing. And 2020 really caused us to look at how we do things differently and how we can better manage and better assess what's going on. And I think that is kind of the accumulation of that collaboration, just staying in close contact. You know, the manufacturing processes, you know, have changed for multiple factories. The probe itself is still the same as a solid wooden junction, mitigates the three P's of harsh pH measurement, which is pumping, plugging, and poisoning. But, you know, it's all about people. And the more That's the fourth P.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

That is the fourth P. There's a couple of things.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

There's a couple more as well. You know, people, uh people are a big part of that because people change, uh, processes change, and we have to stay in close communication and collaboration. Our channels help us with that, you know, because what we do on a day-to-day basis is vindictive of what they're doing. And as more we understand what they're doing, the better we can manage how we go to market and help them.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

So that's so interesting, though. Have you noticed, you know, we talk about people changing. Well, in the pulp and paper industry right now, we're facing a real challenge with that knowledge transfer from an older generation to a younger generation. Um, have you seen sort of a difference in the the customers you're working with at the mill about, you know, as they're bringing the young guys on? How like how is that how do you see those dynamics changing?

SPEAKER_05 47:04

Yeah, I'd like to touch on this. So it's a really perfect segue into what we want to talk about and introduce this week, which is this pH care package that we really referenced in the beginning. One of so let me just go through what it is and outline it a little bit more. So you mentioned trouble with workforce where these older guys are leaving and there's it's the passing down of knowledge is not quite there, especially around pH control. The thing that we're offering with this pH care package is essentially that we're coming in and we're doing pH school training. So the whole careful package is pH care package. PH school training, it includes uh what what we call an ABB lifecycle assessment, and then we have a demand remote assistance with that. So what's included with the formal pH training is a full scope on-site formal training by an ABB pH expert. You go right into the mill. Right into the mill. Terrific. And we'll cover several points of performance related to principles of process pH measurement, configurations, operation, and maintenance, and then wiring and diagnostics. So you get that passing directly from an ABB expert. So um, and then on top of that, we get um sort of this uh best practices, um, lessons learned from ABB expert who's seen different things in the field. So it doesn't have to be passed down internally, it can be passed down from us. Terrific each individual customer. The ABB lifecycle assessment is exactly what it sounds like. We're gonna walk down your ABB lifecycle or sorry, your ABB install base of all the probes, put our hands on them, look at them, reference them, make sure there's if there's any issues that we're that we're looking at, we're doing that once a year, annual subscription where we're again formal training and then walking down your install base. There might be 24 to 50 probes installed, so we can walk down and we can put our hands on them, make sure, hey, this is this installed properly, does it look good? Is the sample system look good? So we're looking at all things. And then the last one is this demand remote assistance. So anytime we're not there for the rest of the year, we'll have direct access to ABB Expert for any technical issues or support.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

So a mill doesn't even have to have a PH expert. You can create one at the mill, right? You can come in and grow one right at the mill for them.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

That's right. We're we're trying to empower our customers because knowledge is key and you know, knowledge is power, and the more knowledge you have. Could you read that off the tappy brochure? Well, because I feel like we're in alignment right now, Jan.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

I absolutely agree. That's what we're all about, knowledge and knowledge sharing.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Yes. And so we're here to empower our customers because the more they know, uh, the better job that they can do. And it helps us and we help them, and it's a win-win-win across the board. I completely agree.

SPEAKER_05 49:51

Our commitment is providing expert pH consultation. We like that word consultation to help provide indisputable data to increase the availability of their pH probes and help maintain their operational reliability.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

I think that is something that every ABB employee is required to say, like the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of every workday.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

Just ingrain it in you and you start. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

So do you guys get to work together off when you're not at Tapicon? Do you work in the same in the same office or the same facility?

SPEAKER_05 50:25

We have a pretty close working relationship. Yeah. I would say once a month we're seeing each other.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

Because we put this together as sort of a collaboration effort with Tony's expert Ph skills and knowledge and then service, putting together a package that we could sort of coin and and introduce to the market. We spent a lot of time together with this.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Cool. Well, Tappy's all about the love. So this is not going to be antagonistical at all. I don't even know if that's a word. Uh, but we're going to do a quick lightning round. Tony versus Tony. Okay. Tony T, what is the best thing about working with Tony M?

SPEAKER_05 50:57

Yeah, I was just talking to my wife about this last night. So Tony M, he's he comes up with brilliant ideas, yeah, but he acts on them. What I see too often is people they say a lot, but they don't put any fuel to the fire. There's it doesn't get done, it just says, Oh, it's a great idea, but then nothing ever happens. Tony and I are very similar. Where if we have an idea, we're optimistic. We trust it, we believe in it, we go for it. That's true. And if it fails, or if there's a if there's a mistake or something, we learn from it, and we move forward, we we revamp and we go again. And I appreciate that about him and he's got energy and you'll feel it.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

I love it. Tony M, you have a humbled but pleased look on your face at hearing that compliment.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

I know. I feel like I should just walk away right now and let you guys keep talking.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Well, you have to tell me the best thing about working with Tony T.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

So, you know, it's all about alignment. And, you know, Tony T and I are very much aligned and um we trust each other. We work well together.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Oh, so important, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Very, very important. And so uh and trust is a big part of relationship when you start building uh with your colleagues. And so the trust we have for one another and the work we've been doing is just phenomenal. And when you can feed on that from each other, it really just helps each other. And it's really just contagious. You know, other people pick up on it, you know, and want to feed into it. And so uh we try to breed positivity here within our company and you know, try to help our customers and just carry that energy and passion for what we love to do. And we have some phenomenal experts on the team, you know. That's terrific to hear that uh that that make us just as good as we are. So it's a uh it's a very team collaborative effort.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

I love it. Okay, well, we're on the last tip, TapyCon. So I'm not gonna take any more of your time. You guys get out there and meet more folks, and I really appreciate you stopping by and talking to me here for the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 52:40

Well, thanks for having us, Jan.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

Tony and Tony, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 52:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

Positivity, energy, and passion. All were quite evident at TapyCon 2023, and I hope you were able to be there. If not, plan ahead for next year. You don't need to be an expert already to find your niche at Tapicon, but I guarantee that you'll leave knowing more about your job with a renewed passion for this amazing industry. I'm so glad you could join me as I spoke with Calvin, Rebecca, Alos, Tony, and Tony on this episode of Better Together. Be sure to subscribe, follow on social media, and share this episode with industry friends. We really appreciate your support. If you haven't already checked out our other TappyCon Live episode, please do so for more Atlanta awesomeness. Thank you for listening to Better Together, the Paper 360 podcast.

SPEAKER_07 53:41

Hello everyone, this is Larry Montague, president and CEO of Tappy, the pulp, paper, packaging, tissue, and converting industry's go to resource for news, industry trends, and technical and management information. We hope you enjoy today's Better Together podcast. And remember, there are two types of people in our industry Tappy members and those who should be. Have a great day.