TAPPI Podcast Network
The TAPPI Podcast Network offers engaging conversations with the most innovative leaders in the packaging, pulp, paper, tissue and converting industries through wide-ranging interviews on current topics relevant to listeners at every stage of their careers.
TAPPI Podcast Network
Better Together: Live from 2023 TAPPICon - Episode 1
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
TAPPICon 2023 was a huge success with attendees and exhibitors. Boasting high attendance and a top-notch program, the conference offered plenty for attendees, including a multi-track technical program and an exhibit floor packed with new technology. The event took place April 22 - 26, 2023 at Cobb Galleria in Atlanta, GA.
Better Together Host Jan Bottiglieri was right there at TAPPICon interviewing exhibitors and attendees to capture some of that energy live, while it was happening. For this special "Live from TAPPICon 2023!" episode, she's joined by guest host Mark Rushton, senior editor with Paper360° and the editor of Tissue360°.
Here are the folks you'll meet on this episode of "Better Together"--and just a taste of what they'll be sharing in our conversation:
· Jeff Peters, BTG: "The biggest growth (in the tissue sector) has been through improvements in tissue technology."
· Alfredo Sarli, Valmet: "Tissue is one of the most energy intensive processes... but that creates opportunity."
· Naomi Ballenger, Jacobs: "We've set up employee networks that help employees feel ready to make that next move up."
· Pat Dixon, Pulmac: "Say you have a Z-Span tester or a shive analyzer—you're producing data, but what do you do with it?"
· Yesha Patel, JMC Paper Tech USA: "As a company new to the NA market, we offer our own strengths... this industry will continue to grow."
Even if you missed TAPPICon this year, this episode will let you virtually join the nearly 1,700 industry professionals, students, and others who gathered to learn and network in Atlanta. Make sure to subscribe and share—and join the conversation on Better Together!
Here are a few links related to this episode that may interest listeners:
· Access the latest issue of Tissue360° magazine
· Learn more about TAPPICon 2023 Keynoter John Dyck and Smart Manufacturing in the March/April issue of Paper360° or on this previous episode of "Better Together"
· Read about the new Industry 4.0 Lexicon developed by the PIMA Division's IT Committee
· Check out the 2023 highlight real on tappicon.org, then bookmark for updates on next year's TAPPICon, April 28 - May 1, 2024, in Cleveland, OH
Welcome to Paper 360's Better Together Podcast. We've got a terrific episode for you today, captured live at Tapicon in Atlanta, Georgia, in April 2023. With high attendance and a top-notch program, Tapicon 2023 was a huge success with attendees and exhibitors. I was struck by the level of engagement, both on the show floor and in the session rooms. The event was held at Cobb Galleria in Atlanta, Georgia. Nearly 1,700 industry professionals, students, and others gathered to network, share best practices, and just celebrate this amazing industry of ours. So not only do I welcome some very cool guests for this episode, but we even have our first ever guest host, Mark Rushton, a senior editor with Paper 360 and the editor of Tissue 360. It's great to see Mark each year at Tapicon, and he was excited to speak to our first two guests. For this episode, we collected five interviews from our time at Tapicon. First, Mark talks to Jeff Peters of BTG about growth in the tissue sector. We'll then meet Valmet's Alfredo Sarley, who talks about the ways to improve the energy efficiency in tissue operations. Next up, Naomi Ballinger from Jacobs will discuss the advantages of working for a company that supports an engaged and diverse workforce. Then I speak with Pat Dixon of PullMac, who shares his perspectives on how to turn data into knowledge. And finally, we'll hear from Yesha Patel, CEO of JMC PaperTech USA, on her company's plans for expanding into the North American market and their new project in Mexico. Folks have really been loving these podcasts from the events, so I'm glad you're joining us today for our first 2023 Live from Tapicon episode of Better Together. Let's go to Atlanta.
SPEAKER_03Hi, I am Mark Rushton and I have been writing about the paper and tissue industry for 23 years since joining the industry in 2000. I live in the UK with my family, including Twins of 13 and my dog Rocky. I'm the editor of Tissue 360 magazine and senior editor of Paper 360 magazine, where I work with the editor Jan Bottoleri. I am acting as a guest host of our podcast series from Tapicon, which is a great show this year with lots of people and lots of energy.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic.
SPEAKER_03Great to have you with us. Can you tell us uh about yourself and what you do at BTG?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm our tissue applications manager, so I work uh me and my team, we uh work closely with our account managers and our customers to help them solve any problems that they may have, either using our products or even sometimes uh products and services that we don't provide to uh, you know, just help them make their process run more efficiently.
SPEAKER_03Okay, fantastic. So you'll you're steeped in history of uh of the tissue industry. So can you uh can you give us a little bit of your history in the tissue industry?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I became a hundred percent focused on tissue back in 1994, and at that time I was working for a chemical company and uh started up their tissue applications group, did that for a number of years, and then did some product management and business management and marketing for the industry. Then I actually left the tissue industry for a couple years to embark on what I'd call Jeff's Great Adventure. Right. And it was totally non-related to paper. It was tool and die and specialty machining. Uh it was during the big economic downturn, things didn't go so well. So I came to uh BTG in the uh summer of 2009.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so you were dragged back kicking and screaming, or how did it happen?
SPEAKER_00No, I I I came back I kept uh good relations and communication with friends of mine in the industry because you never know what's gonna happen. And I just reached out to them and said, hey, uh, you know, things aren't going so well. And actually an old boss of mine approached me and said, Hey, would you be interested in coming to our company and helping us grow in the tissue segment?
SPEAKER_03Fantastic. So um what changes have you seen take place in the time that you've been in the industry? What what sort of really sticks out?
SPEAKER_00What really sticks out to me is a uh the the number of uh new companies that are uh coming into the tissue segment. When I first started there were a lot, and then there was like this industry consolidation and the big guys are buying the small guys, and now it's moved back the other way, and there's been really a lot of growth in what we would call the private label type products where these large supermarkets want their own particular brand. So it's really put a lot of pressure on the branded folks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So why do you think that there's been a growth in companies?
SPEAKER_00What what has caused that? Uh I really I think the biggest growth has been uh improvements in technology, a l a lot of uh improvements around uh through air dry technology and these uh private label brands that people are looking for. And the branded folks weren't aren't too excited about making products for someone that's gonna be competing with them for shelf space and consumer demand.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, great. And great to be an industry that's growing so much. That's fantastic. Um so what challenges do you see tissue makers uh having to face on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_00Well, some of the biggest challenges we're seeing now is just the lack of people coming into the paper industry, whether it's tissue, packaging, whatever. And I was talking to uh one of my friends in the industry and he said, you know, the amount of experience in our mill has has dropped uh, you know, from a normal 20, 25 years experience. He goes, now we're like five years experience for operations. So we've had that big knowledge drain. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So how do these um companies cope with that? I mean, do I suppose more automation is the k is one of the answers.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's one of the I think that's what's h really helping drive this whole digital transformation and stuff, because Mills really don't have much of a choice. Yeah. You have less people, and there's been a lot of improvements in the technology and the uh operating uh uh capabilities of the machines and with all the computer software upgrades and stuff, and just new technologies and stuff like us and other suppliers are offering to the industry has really made this so-called digital transformation uh possible. The paper industry always moves slowly, they seem to lag the rest of the industries. Uh you know, so but I th I see good things happening in this area.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so um you're talking about digital there. Can you just give us an example of of some sort of digitization that's going on with BTG and what it does in the tissue industry?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's uh as you have these uh new sensors that are able to grab a lot of data, grab a lot of information, it's really how do what do I do with all this information and analyze it? So we have these computers and different systems that can take this data, analyze it, and then do predictive modeling through the use of engineers and stuff to predictive modeling to give the operators something that they can use that's more proactive. So using the data to help predict what's gonna happen on the paper machine instead of being reactive like it used to be, like, oh, I gotta wait for my test. Oh, this test's good, this test's bad, I need to adjust something. Here we can be proactive and be much more efficient and making sure that we're producing the product that our customers really are gonna want to buy.
SPEAKER_03Right. So you're sort of solving problems before they happen, so that is what we're doing. Correct, yeah. Wow, that's awesome. Really good. Um and so what opportunities do you see for tissue makers in the future? How how's the future looking?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think it's still a great future for them. Tissue isn't going away. I don't think they've some of the things that we do with tissue, I don't think you can do with an iPad. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think we know you're talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So uh but there's that continued uh requirement by the consumers, I want something softer, s softer, stronger, something that I can have a greater use uh of using. Uh so there's going to be continued challenges for the tissue makers to make sure they're satisfying their customer needs. And then with all the the pressure on different alternative fibers, sustainable fibers and stuff, and just uh just tremendous opportunities for new people coming into the industry and for the industry itself and challenges to how can I satisfy my customers with an ever-changing fiber supply, et cetera, around me.
SPEAKER_03Fantastic. Jeff, that's a great call out to uh to anybody out there who's looking for something really challenging to do. Join the tissue industry.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, and I I think these new engineers that are coming out of school, uh one thing I did this year is I at a local university uh taught a couple classes for a senior engineering elective course, and I told these students, I said, you guys are are in a great position. There's all this data, a lot of us don't know what to do with all of it. You guys are very computer savvy and know how to work all this stuff, and there's just tremendous opportunity for you guys to really grab all this uh information and how can I analyze this quickly and make this whole process better and produce better products, be more efficient, be more green, you know, be more sustainable out there and do the things that we need to do to make sure we keep this industry moving forward in the right direction and being conscious and responsible for the environment in which we live in.
SPEAKER_03Great. Jeff, it's been really good talking to you. And uh it sounds like the the tissue industry is in great hands, and it seems like it's a great place to continue working. So thank you so much for joining us today.
SPEAKER_00All right, Mark, and thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure. You have a great day. And you.
SPEAKER_03Hey Alfredo, great to have you with us and welcome to the Better Together podcast. Thank you, Mark. Good to be here. Can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do at Velmet?
SPEAKER_01Yes, my name is Alfredo Sarley, and uh I'm an application specialist, and I work in the uh air systems division, and I'm based out of Montreal.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. Once again, nice to have you with us. Can you uh first of all tell us about your history in the tissue industry?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I started about uh 32 years ago, straight out of school, uh always in the paper industry. Uh various uh uh functions and roles. I uh my background is mechanical engineering, so I ended up um uh with a company making Yankee Hoods out of Montreal. Uh from there we got acquired by Voyth. Uh, was there for a few years, and currently uh I'm in Valmet. Uh always in the uh air systems group. Uh on the tissue side we mainly focus uh on various air systems uh like dust control systems, for example. And other groups uh within Valmet, of course, also do Yankee hoods and so on uh in other areas like uh Biddeford in Maine or the the dryer crate, uh the dry crate machines uh out of uh Gorizia for those hoods.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. So you have a lot of history in in the uh tissue industry. Um can you tell us what changes you have seen take place in that time, those 32 years?
SPEAKER_01Well, in 32 years, I I would say uh uh the biggest changes uh probably been uh one that marks me uh directly uh since I work a lot on heat recovery is uh energy costs. Um it's it was quite a roller coaster uh in the early I remember um you know with uh gas uh and and energy costing at about ten dollars per million BTU, there were a lot of interesting heat recovery projects that dropped down uh some years ago uh very low, and that changed the focus on uh energy recovery. Now that energy costs are going back up, there's a renewed uh interest in it, and uh which uh brings us to why uh heat recovery and and which plays very well with decarbonization as well, um saving energy, lowering the footprint. So that was exactly what I was uh uh speaking on just this morning, in fact, at a technical session, how to optimize the uh dryer energy um consumption on a tissue machine at the Yankee dryer. Um the other big change I would say is the quality of tissue and towel in North America with uh with the improvements that come along with that, uh part and parcel of it is higher dust generation. It's a direct sign of higher quality. Yeah, but dust generation is becomes an issue, uh, a fire, uh, a fire risk. So that led me to get more involved uh uh in TAPI with uh uh working on a uh subcommittee and ultimately chairing uh subcommittee on dust mitigation.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so when did you actually join TAPI?
SPEAKER_01I joined about uh that's about 12 years ago or so. I mainly was interested in um uh uh not only learning, but also I enjoyed giving uh technical talks, and I've been doing that for at least 12 years. And um from that I got interested in uh just joining the Yankee Dryer Safety Committee because I knew a lot of people there in tissue. Uh and then from that, that's where the uh a working group stemmed out uh out of that uh for dust mitigation as it became uh uh an important issue, and so I was kind of volunteered to willingly. I I I do uh I did accept the challenge and I and I'm grateful for it now because I really enjoy it. Um we're very proud of that group because uh right away uh it's been two and a half years, so it was a bit of a COVID project. Uh and so a lot of Zoom meetings uh to originally organize it, but we were very surprised at the turnout that we got because right away we grew to about 40 people within months.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01And which is incredible. And now we have four working groups within that subcommittee, so there's quite a bit uh a bit of activity, and our ultimate goal is to generate uh a guidance, uh much in the uh form of a tappy tip, for example. And so the working groups are each focusing on different areas of dust mitigation and fire risk, and then once we get all that together, we're hoping that our goal is maybe in about a year's time to start work putting together a Tappy tip. Alternately, we're also providing uh material for a course that we're hoping to start up as well.
SPEAKER_03Excellent.
SPEAKER_01Excellent within Tappy. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So apart from dust and fire, um, what are you um what what other challenges are you seeing tissue makers have to face on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's yeah, that's a big one. I think with the fire, that's uh that's a big one. On a day-to-day basis, I would say, apart from the uh the fire risk and the dust generation, I would say that uh the energy costs are the big one because of the the the sharp uh increase in energy costs, uh that's become quite a challenge. We know that tissue is one of the most energy-intensive paper making processes because of the nature of it. And so I I think it creates opportunity, and I'm glad that we are working on that to reduce that, and that's what our work is involved in with regards to heat recovery or uh drier energy optimization, control systems that automate all the various parameters so that we're ensuring that the uh operation is at its minimum uh cost operation point.
SPEAKER_03Fantastic. That was gonna be my next question to you. Well how does Velmet assist customers with their challenges?
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, so uh great. Well, so uh along the lines of that, um uh I gave a present uh talk this morning at the uh the tissue uh session on a uh control system that can automate uh the uh all the all the parameters involved in uh tissue drying. So uh whether it's and mainly in the air system portion of it that feeds the hood. So we have the temperature, the uh uh the pressure, uh the flow, um uh spill out of the hood, uh the exhaust humidity, ensuring that all those parameters are optimum. It's difficult because it's uh to do it manually. It re it's very intensive. There's a lot of measurements, there's a lot of uh iterations. And then once all that setup is done, it can completely uh disappear uh with a few changes over a course of a few months. So it requires constantly uh to constantly come back and to reset those. And that's that's a that's a huge task. Uh especially when uh day-to-day operations require your attention to be uh elsewhere. What the system does is it helps monitor all those conditions and actually optimize them through an algorithm.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01So that takes a lot of work. It doesn't take any work away from really uh the the the operator, it takes work away from what one would need to do to bring services in to do that optimization work. So it allows the operator to actually focus really on the heart uh of his function.
SPEAKER_03So this sounds like a classic um uh example of a digital solution uh to uh a drying problem.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. It's a digital solution to a drying problem, and it fits nicely within the framework of the uh IoT uh approach, uh which uh Valmet, my other colleagues at Valmet are are are very much invested in uh the the the the Internet of Things and and uh big data and how to operate the whole machine. So this is a perfect fit. It's great for remote uh access and control. And in fact, uh speaking of virtual the virtual mill and simulators, uh uh Matt is doing a um uh a session this afternoon at 5 30, uh customer experience, where they'll get to see all the various uh technologies available uh from from that, or all the digital solutions available.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. So um been great. You've given us a few examples here and there, and uh what opportunities do you see for tissue makers in the future?
SPEAKER_01Opportun the the opportunities uh really uh lie in uh there's a lot of low-hanging fruit with regards to energy savings. That's that's I think that's good news because there's a lot that can be done. Uh there's a lot the the higher quality grades generate more dust. There's a lot that can be done to mitigate that dust and mitigate the fire risk. So there's a lot of opportunities to improve uh the operation in that regard. And um I think that's the biggest uh opportunity. Maybe the biggest challenge is probably um specialized uh labor and getting people. So maybe the digital solutions will go hand in hand with trying to help solve that problem too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good high that's been highlighted quite a bit actually at this uh tapy con. So uh it sounds though like the tissue industry is in great shape, actually, Freyda. What did we what would you say about that?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I I think because of the opportunities uh i anything that is a a challenge now is just should be looked at as an opportunity, and I think we're on the right track.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_07I want to pause for a moment and tell you about an important event upcoming from our sister association, ABTCP, in Brazil. ABTCP is preparing for its 55th pulp and paper international congress. Sponsored by ABTCP, the Brazilian Pulp and Paper. Technical Association, the Congress will be held in person with the goal of further strengthening the already consistent network of relationships in the sector and to add new members to it. Innovation as the pillar of circularity in the pulp and paper industry will be the central theme of the event. ABTCP's 55th Annual Congress is Latin America's largest meeting of the forest-based industry production chain. This exciting event will take place October 17th through the 19th at the Novotel Center Norpe in Sao Paulo. For more information about ABTCP's 55th Pulp and Paper International Congress, visit www.abtcp2023.org.br. Again, that's abtcp2023.org.br. See you there. Okay, welcome back to Better Together. I'm here with Naomi Ballinger. She's a process engineer with Jacobs and she's gonna tell me everything. You're gonna teach me how to be an engineer, correct?
SPEAKER_08Well, I don't know if I can teach you how to be an engineer in just a few minutes, but I certainly can improve your want to be an engineer.
SPEAKER_07You can improve my desire. But I I already kind of want to be an engineer. I talk to a lot of engineers at Tappy, and they are very cool people, and um I'm always impressed with their knowledge, and I'm always impressed with their curiosity.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, well, that's probably one of the biggest things I think about being an engineer is just being curious, always wanting to learn. And I'm always impressed with just the range of things that folks are involved with, right? Inside of engineering and outside of engineering, especially here at TapyCon.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Oh wow, what a segment. What a seg what a segue into uh what I want to talk about next, which is how's your TapyCon experience been so far? Oh, it's going great.
SPEAKER_08I mean the organizers have done a really great job putting stuff together. I mean, I've got to go to a lot of really great sessions. I love all of the sessions that are happening even after, right? To ensure that we get to um experience the products. Like the Valmin experience last night was a really cool.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, ABB has a whole truck. Yeah. A whole truck on exhibit four, right? That has come up several times on the podcast. Just that the booths have so much kind of fun and interesting stuff.
SPEAKER_08But we bought a bunch of folks, so you you'll probably see a a good range of folks this year. We bought uh, man, if you want to talk about DEI, we've got women, we've got a bunch of women, we've got age groups ranging all the way from the 20s up to, I think we got some folks that are in their 60s, and hopefully they're not thinking about retiring anytime soon because we need them.
SPEAKER_07We need them. Um, while that's a great point you bring up. Let's do talk about DEI a little bit. Um, you said you're excited about working for Jacobs and that Jacobs has been making a lot of progress in this area.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, actually we have. I mean, the last two, three years, um, the company has really focused on improving the spectrum of folks that we have inside the company, trying to make us look more like the environments that we um live in. You know, and I really appreciate our executive leadership team. I mean, they they've been hounding that, I guess hounding is not the right word. But I mean, they're I mean, they've really focused on that in the past few years, and you can see our executive leadership board and even go down to the management in our local offices really starting to reflect the the environments that we live in and the offices for the people that work that's terrific.
SPEAKER_07And that support has to start at the top. Absolutely. And then everyone feels that support and it just creates a really positive energy, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it actually does.
SPEAKER_08I mean, even I mean, we've we've set up a lot of in um employee networks with affinities that help folks feel more comfortable in the environment. And then also be able to make that next leap to okay, how do I want to be part of the leadership team? How can I be more effective in a job that I'm doing now? Or if you just want to make a lateral move, you know, there are folks that you can connect with that can help you get there.
SPEAKER_07Well, you know, that's kind of what Tappy is all about, too, is just that finding those support networks that make it so much easier to even even know what's available to you, right?
SPEAKER_08That's absolutely true. There was a really good session that happened here with the young professionals. Yeah, the speed mentoring. I keep wanting to call it speed speed dating.
SPEAKER_07But I thought that was honestly, it is a lot like speed dating. Oh, I'm not I'm not meshing with this mentor, but that's okay. There's more coming down the line for me to meet.
SPEAKER_08Absolutely. We had a couple of guys that participated in that and they said they absolutely love that format. We're probably gonna steal a little bit of that. Maybe do some of that in our in our environment.
SPEAKER_07We'll take that stealing if we give it as a gift. We'll take that gift. I love it. Well, that must mean it seemed like a really effective format for you then.
SPEAKER_08I absolutely, absolutely. I thought it was a very effective format. You know, just even if folks didn't pick up a mentor from the folks that they talked with, they at least got to hear about the experiences from different folks. Right. And then also our our mentors get to see what talent's out there and how they may want to connect with them.
SPEAKER_07Oh man, and I will tell you what, our Tappy members love seeing the talent that's coming up um through our young professionals division, through our students, um, uh our student chapters, and that just adds that energy to the industry. But well, it's really great to see the students here too, right?
SPEAKER_08Because we're always looking for great new talent to put inside the company, and so to see them getting involved, a Tappy Con, right? Right. And taking on those leadership positions, it just uh it speaks very highly of Tappy as an organization and how it's transferred to the industry.
SPEAKER_07Thank you. You see I see a lot of um the paper schools have booths showing kind of what the students have been up to, and it's always exciting. It's like they're doing all of this, there's a post-through session, and I'm like, all this is going on right now.
SPEAKER_08Yes, yes, I mean it's really awesome, and even there's some sessions. I said there was a session yesterday, um, Miami University. Yeah, yeah. Talking about the program that they have there for um instrumentation and controls, and I thought, oh, that is so awesome, right? I I'm chemical engineer by degree, right? And they mainly take chemical engineers and mechanical engineers, and I would have loved to take a course like that, or you know, where there was less pressure to know about more about the environment before you you step into it. And then there are internships that come along with that. I mean, yeah, you can't get better than that.
SPEAKER_07I love it. The support from everybody there. Well, as a female chemical engineer, what attracted you to the pulp and paper industry?
SPEAKER_08Well, so okay, to be fair, the office that I work for at Greenville, South Carolina, um, with Jacobs, um, is a um center of excellence for Jacobs for pulp and paper. So you just can't escape pulp and paper if you're in that area. So my very first project was a pulp and paper job. And so I've been I've been in and out of the industry in my entire career. That's great. What keeps you coming back? Well, I mean, we've got the work in, and to be quite honest, pulp and paper as an industry, I mean, you cover so many different um unit processes, right? I mean, I tell the young folks now when they come in, I mean, if if you really want to get a good basis and and an all-around full that whole wide spectrum to them, right? Yeah. Pulp and paper is a great industry to do that in. I mean, you that's great advice. And it's transferable to a lot of other places, right? And skills they've learned in other industries, if they were working there before, are transferable into pulp and paper industry as well, because they're just there so many unit processes that are required.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, right? So many touch points, so many access points. Yeah. I love it. So tell me a little about how Jacobs helps its customers uh in the mills.
SPEAKER_08Well, so we have if we're talking um specifically pulp and paper, because we do actually we do a lot of different industries. I encourage folks to go check up www.chickjacobs.com. Go check up my company on jacobs.com. We've got all the industries that we work in, but pulp and paper we've been in for a really long time. Um and we help we help customers all the way from the wood mill to packaging and receiving for the wood mill. We've got you know folks that are familiar with the paper machines themselves, have worked in the industry a really, really long time. Some of those folks are here this weekend as well. I mean, we got folks that um I'm here with one guy, Scott Hangan. I mean, he's probably been in every mill in the southeast. Love it. But it's, you know, I mean, they've got really deep experience in the industry so that we can help our customers connect with the correct um processes or the correct solutions that they need in order to make their systems function better. Um, and then also introduce them to new technologies that might be coming out that maybe haven't considered because we try to keep those connections with the vendors as well for, you know, what do you have to run? Which is why it's nice to see the exhibit hall right here too because that ex that introduces people to new uh technology that's out there as well.
SPEAKER_07Right. Um I think that's another really interesting point, you know. Um a lot of vendors come to Chapicon to either support their own booths or to meet MIL customers or to kind of get education in some of the the really nitty-gritty sessions that are going on here about the workings of the pulp and paper mills, uh tissue mills, whatever. But it's also a great way for vendors to meet other vendors. Yeah, to see what's out there, to see how they can support their customers.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're a very integrated community, pulp and paper is, right? So it's you know, it's not one you need them all. You need them all.
SPEAKER_07Okay. You need them all. So what do you see ahead? Usually I've been asking people what they see ahead for the pulp and paper industry, but honestly, I've had so much fun talking to you just as an engineer that I want to ask you, what do you see ahead for yourself as a female engineer with experience in some of these different industries? What what would kind of be your ideal path? Oh wow.
SPEAKER_08That's a that's a really good question. You know, so I'm starting to get later in my career and I'm I'm thinking a lot about I honestly I'm thinking a lot about what's the legacy that I'm leaving behind, right? And so I'm finding myself I'm getting more and more involved and trying to reach back and do things with students, you know, whether they're elementary students or high school students or college students. I really love getting in that environment and encouraging people, you know, spark that interest. That's how it happened for me, you know, um to want to be in the science, to want to do engineering. I mean, I had I mean I was in high school and East May there was a gentleman from East McCodak. I really wish I remembered this guy's name. Um, because um he's the one that said, hey, you should think about chemical engineering, right? Wow. Um and then um Mae Jameson became an astronaut and she was a chemical engineer, and so that sealed the deal. So I mean I think I could be that influence for someone, and and so I loved her happy in that.
SPEAKER_07You know, and that ties in perfectly to what we were talking about, you know, with mentor match and even the tappy environment, you know, guys who are have been in the industry for a long time, women who have already built their careers, all these folks can look back and kind of reach back for those younger folks and lead them in. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08Well, you know, and they keep us learning too, right? Because they ask those questions, why? And you you've just been doing it that way for so long. Right. Sometimes you've forgotten, well, why why why are you doing it that way? So you gotta you gotta question that again. Maybe that's not really still the best way to do it.
SPEAKER_07Well, and again, this touches right back to what we were talking about with diversity. When you have those diverse voices and diverse experiences, that's when the real innovation happens, in my opinion. Absolutely, absolutely. That's a true statement. Well, Naomi, it has just been a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much for bringing this positive outlook to our Better Together podcast. Awesome. And I hope you have a great rest of your TapyCon. Oh, great, I appreciate that. It's been great talking to you, and I definitely plan to have a great rest of TappyCon. Well, welcome back to Better Together, and I'm here now with Patrick Dixon. He's vice president of automation for Pull Mac. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Pat.
SPEAKER_02Well, good morning.
SPEAKER_07Good morning. It is a little early.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was up early running around the building here in the fun run.
SPEAKER_07Oh, so you did the fun run.
SPEAKER_02I did the fun run this morning, yes.
SPEAKER_07Oh, that's awesome. For our listeners, the fun run is a um fundraising event that happens every year at Tapicon to raise money for scholarships for paper industry students. Was it fun?
SPEAKER_02It was fun, and I think I was the caboose. I think I finished last. So whoever runs, you're gonna be faster than me.
SPEAKER_07Well, I would say how about this? Whoever uh enjoys that scholarship and goes on to an awesome career in the paper industry, thank Pat.
SPEAKER_02Okay. You're welcome.
SPEAKER_07Well, we're really happy to have you here at TapyCon. Um POMAC's an exhibitor.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07First of all, can you tell us a little about what PullMac does?
SPEAKER_02PullMac is pretty well known. We've been around for about 50 years, and what we're known for is laboratory instrumentation. The company was really founded about trying to understand furnish. What are these fibers? What is in the raw material that we're using to make paper? So uh we're in about 75% of the North American market. Uh we're our name is pretty well under recognized and understood. Uh but my role, I was brought in about a year and a half ago because what we want to do is instead of generating data, convert it. So we've always been in the data generation business. You have a master screen or a Z-Span tester or a Shive Analyzer, you're producing data. All right, what do you do with it?
SPEAKER_07So That's the magic question, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02So we already have a lot of data already. If unless you have somewhere to put it and use it and turn it into information, uh then you're just overwhelming. So what we want to do is uh focus on data analytics and automation, and that's my role.
SPEAKER_07Awesome. See, I think you just touched on something that a lot of people don't make a distinction between data and information.
SPEAKER_02Correct. Yeah, there's no shortage of data. There is uh a need for the types of solutions that can tell you what it actually means. Right. The best thing to do with data is to use it for automation because now you're using something that is continuous. It's continuously being used to improve whatever you're doing.
SPEAKER_07Right. Did you hear our keynote speaker on the other side?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_07And so you're touching on a lot of the same things that you know it's not just it's not enough that we have all the data, we have to use it to actually apply to our systems to keep improving, to uh kind of democratize the idea of of data can be used not just in the larger uh mills, but also you know, push that information down the line to even the smaller.
SPEAKER_02Right. So another aspect in in the keynote, I'm really glad he addressed this because there is a lot of misunderstanding in the fourth industrial era. He talked about how many people are investing in smart manufacturing and so many of those projects are failing. Part of the reason, I believe, is that we don't know how to communicate effectively. We use terms like digital twin and edge and cloud a lot of misunderstanding about what we're talking about. So I was fortunate to be chair of a committee that produced the Industry 4.0 lexicon for Tappy. Yes, and uh I'm hoping that that helps us facilitate effective communication so that your expectations are met because you're talking the same language.
SPEAKER_07Yes, you know, I wrote an article for Paper 360 about the lexicon recently. You know, I'll drop a link to that article on the homepage for this podcast. Um we'll have a few links down there just to various things that folks have mentioned, because there's always more links to make of information um about what we're talking about. So I'm really glad you brought that up. And it's so important to kind of be on that same page. But that sounds like exactly what Pomac's doing with fiber as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, really what we're trying to do is because my role is more of the online solution, it's data analytics and automation. We are able to convey here at the trade show in the exhibit hall, we are able to bring in people and show them how you're going to use this data. We can we have uh what you would call a digital twin that shows you this data that's coming in, where's it go and how do you use it?
SPEAKER_07That's so cool. I you know, I was speaking with another guest earlier about how it's not just a bunch of guys standing behind uh booths, you know, women with corporate uh the corporate logos on their polos waiting to answer a question. There's machinery out there, there's um video, there's like you said, digital twins. And I understand you POMAC has something new that they've brought to the show.
SPEAKER_02Right. Uh so what we're really highlighting is our partnerships, the partnerships we've developed for online measurement and data analytics. Uh one of the partnerships is with a company called Seek. Seek is a data analytics platform. It's a very comprehensive platform, and we are certified uh to use their their solution. Uh it's uh I we find it a very effective way to make use of data so that you can actually see what you're doing.
SPEAKER_07Right. Oh, now isn't that a good idea? See what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_07I love it. So how's this show been for you guys so far?
SPEAKER_02This has been very good. I believe this is the first time PullMec has ever had a booth. Oh, okay. And uh we've done a lot of webinars, we've done social media, and you have to do that stuff, but to have somebody in face to face and you're showing them here's the actual control system. We the digital twin is a control system, so they're familiar with what it looks like, and that person is in front of that screen with you right next to them, that's very effective.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Right. Because if you do it in a webinar or video, it's really now you're talking a screen on a screen, and then a the person's on the screen, and the sc the screen's on a different screen, so that you know it's just farther and farther. And I'm really glad you said that. That's one of the things that Tappy always says about its live events. There's there's really no substitution for that live interaction.
SPEAKER_02Right. As an example, so I'm also very heavily involved at Miami University in the process control curriculum. Uh, for we're now in the three years, uh third year of a program called SASE that prepares interns for automation assignments. The first two years I did it remotely. I would get with the students and hear's what the subject is and go through PowerPoints. Last this sum January, I was in the classroom. Far more effective, just that interaction, and I can see some students are not understanding what I'm showing them, so I can stop. I don't want to go a mile down the road and leave them way behind. So and that's just like here. I can we can get that feedback so that you're having an effective commun uh communication.
SPEAKER_07I love that. How's the traffic been at the booth?
SPEAKER_02It's been very good. Actually, we had a kind of a metric for how many contacts we would get, and we've already exceeded it, and we're we've got one more day to go.
SPEAKER_07Well, that's what we like to hear. And yet you took time to come out here and talk to me on the podcast.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Well, I'm always flattered when anyone cares what I think.
SPEAKER_07Well, I do care what you think. You know, it sounds like you are um you're talking to a lot of industry customers.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_07So how you know, I've been talking to people here at Chapicon this year. It seems like there's a great energy in the industry right now. Is that what you're picking up from your customers?
SPEAKER_02I think so. Of course, things come and go as the economy goes, right? Uh there was uh a sag recently in the price of recycled fiber, which helps some people and hurts other people. So I think uh I do sense a bit of an excitement. I know the attendance here is pretty h pretty high.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, again, it's exceeded expectations. So that's always terrific to hear. What do you see ahead for your mill customers as far as you know how the industry is going? Do you see, you know, new ways of using automation, new types of information from automation?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so what we're focused on, if people are familiar with how uh an automation system looks, there are different levels. So we're focused at more the field level where you actually have the equipment. The keynote speaker was talking about level three, which is this level between the financial system and your operation. That's where a lot of the focus is right now because when people talk about digitization, we've been digital at the field level for a long time. Anybody who walks into a paper mill, that's a PLC, that's an HMI, that's a switch. That's been digital for a long time. And at the financial, the financial systems have been digital for a long time. It's that middle layer right there. If people understand, that's what we tried to do with the Industry 4.0 lexicon, define the terms that we're talking about, it's that level right there. It's we're not talking about PLCs or financial systems. It's that middle layer, the manufacturing execution system layer. That's where a lot of the stuff is not mature yet. Okay. And if you bring that to maturity, then you have real efficiencies.
SPEAKER_07That's where you get that movement between the levels.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and everything goes back to the system.
SPEAKER_02Now there's always the concern about security, and there should be.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Do you really want your recovery boiler to be open to the outside world? Yes, you have concerns about that. But there is a fantastic opportunity to really improve the efficiency of your overall operation. And what we're doing at our level benefits from that. Right. Because now we're getting smarter targets.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's really the infrastructure that can accept it and take it and use it to optimize what you're doing.
SPEAKER_07That sounds pretty exciting to me. Yep. Any last words before I let you go today, Pat?
SPEAKER_02Uh no, I'm just very happy we were here and uh having a booth. I hopefully we're gonna continue to have booths here at Capricorn.
SPEAKER_07Love that idea.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_07And I hope I hope I get to speak to Pumac again in the future, see what else new you have for us.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic.
SPEAKER_07And now on Paper 360's Better Together podcast, I'm happy to welcome Dr. Yisha Patel. She's Chief Executive Officer for JMC Paper Tech, and she's just been telling me that this is their first TapyCon. Welcome, Dr. Patel. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. So, yeah, you say this is your first TapyCon, and how's it going so far?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, this is JMC's first TapyCon as an exhibitor. And it's been a really great turnout. We've had a great success at our booth, lots of uh foot traffic. Um, our company, JMC Paper Tech Private Limited, our parent company is based out of India, and we've been in the paper machine manufacturing business for over 30 years now. And over the last year, we opened an American subsidiary called JMC Paper Tech USA. So this event has especially been very important for us to kind of network and get to know the um people involved in the North American market, um, just making connections and introductions to kind of get our foot into the door. That's terrific.
SPEAKER_07And finally in North America, we're we've been seeing a lot more announcements of new capital projects coming up in all sectors of the in industry. Um are there any sectors in particular that your machinery is meant to serve, or do you do a lot of different do you cover lots of different sectors? Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_05So we cover almost all uh sectors of the industry. We can do turnkey projects, so we can do everything from beginning to end. We provide engineering all the way to the erection. Um we also do regular maintenance on the mills, and we also offer audits for older mills that want to kind of make changes and you know figure out a way that they can improve their um machines.
SPEAKER_07Terrific. So, what are you guys really excited about as far as your own technology that you can bring that might be new to the North American market?
SPEAKER_05So I think um something that we can bring to the North American market is a level of comfort for you know clients and customers because we have a lot of uh big players over here. So we have experience in all kinds of, we can do crafts, uh duplex, um, tissue, writing, printing. Um, so we have a lot of experience. So kind of just offering that level of comfort to the um, you know, people who are looking for that. And we're a family-run company, so just a lot of um we like to build relationships exactly.
SPEAKER_07That's great. So you say you've been making paper machinery now for 30 years. So a lot of your clients are in India. Um, what are some of the favorite projects that you've done there where you can bring some of that expertise and know-how?
SPEAKER_05One of our major projects recently has been the integrate we just did an integrated pulp mill and paper machine. Um that one's actually in Uganda. Oh wow. So that has been a really exciting project for us because we're one of the first um companies to do that in uh India. Yeah. And so just being able to kind of uh bring that um innovation when we enter into the North American market, I think that's what we're most excited about.
SPEAKER_07That's awesome. And you say you've been meeting a lot of folks here at TapyCon, making some of those industry contacts you need. Um, how how are some other ways that you're trying to get your foot in the door, so to speak? Because North America is a really established market, and I would imagine that there are some challenges as a family-run company coming into this market. What you know, what are some other strategies that you're that you're working on?
SPEAKER_05So I think outside of just you know being an exhibitor in TAPI, we really want to get involved with the committees, especially me being a woman in the industry. Um, I really want to get involved in the women um, yes, the women's summit on Saturday.
SPEAKER_07There are other women uh in industry events throughout um TappyCon and women in industry also works closely with the Pima Management Division of Tappy. So I love to hear that, especially from our exhibitors, because I think sometimes there's a little disconnect. You know, you don't always realize the networking that Tappy offers. So as a as a young female CEO, what are some things you hope to bring to the women in industry division?
SPEAKER_05Um, I first of all, I hope to learn a lot because I met some really um exciting uh women just during the uh mentor match as well as um during one of the events, I think it was on Saturday night. And so just being able to learn a lot from them and their experience um in the industry and how to grow. But as to what I can bring is kind of um some diversity, um some cultural diversity as well as just you know uh fresh perspective.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, that's been super, super important, and I see a lot of that in our younger professionals division, especially, where that diversity of thought is really valued. Um so tell me some of your leadership perspectives of um what it means to be a leader in our industry, in the machinery industry. Um what are some of your strategies as a leader?
SPEAKER_05My strategies as a leader um is to kind of just be welcoming, to um have an open mind when you're ta discussing and networking, even if it's somebody who's a competitor, it's just about making connections, kind of being on a um good level with everybody. Um, we don't believe in tearing anybody down to kind of get ahead, so just helping each other out as you move through the industry, I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_07I mean, that's kind of Tappy's whole founding is knowledge sharing that improves the industry, not only the individual and then the company, but also the industry. I think knowledge sharing is a terrific method of that, of kind of raising the industry. I agree. So as the CEO, as you're trying to enter the North American market, just in your dreams, blue sky, where would your vision of growth be in North America? Where, you know, how do you hope to get started and where do you see JMC going in the market?
SPEAKER_05So as to where we hope to get started, we recently um got an order uh from a company in Mexico. Terrific. Yeah, and in regards to where we hope to be in the future, we would like to be a, you know, this is the first year a lot of people are just hearing JMC's name for the first time. So we would like to be a um well-known name in the industry. Um we would like our presence to be all over the North American market. So kind of reaching into the United States, Canada, going farther.
SPEAKER_07So I see that you're the what you're really saying is everywhere. We want to do everything. But I love that message. I especially loved that you feel there's space for you as a family-owned company to not tear down some of the other um competitors in this market, but to supplement them with your own brand.
SPEAKER_05Yes, definitely. Um I think that's one of our modtoes. Like we like to kind of um we do our own thing, we offer our own strengths. So just focusing on that is really important to us, and I think that kind of shines through in our company's um presence.
SPEAKER_07Well, before I let you go, as a young leader, I have to ask you. In the paper industry, we're sort of at the crux of so much growth, so much change right now. That's how I see our industry. How do you see the paper industry and what do you see ahead for the future of the industry?
SPEAKER_05I think the industry is it's growing and it's gonna continue to grow. Um, especially in the next 10 years, I think the growth is going to be, it's something that we can't predict because of the changes that are happening with the environment, the changes that are happening with, you know, kind of the consumer, um, the consumer-based markets. I think um the paper industry is a great one to be in. I think we need to recruit more people, more students. Definitely. We need more more of a presence within the universities um throughout the states because someone was telling me that there's only seven universities that have a paper program.
SPEAKER_07We have awesome paper schools and we have awesome Tappy chapters at those schools, but I would love to see an even greater number, especially at the community college level. I agree. Where we're looking for some of those, um, some of those folks who don't know what they want to do and don't know about how many opportunities our industry offers.
SPEAKER_05And the exactly just getting more exposure to those individuals would be great.
SPEAKER_07I love that idea. Well, Dr. Patel, thank you very much for being on Better Together, and thank you very much for coming to Tapicon. Thank you so much for having me. It was great talking to you. I agree that we're looking ahead to continued growth for our industry. And events like Tapicon will help us get there by keeping everyone's knowledge fresh and their network strong. I'm so glad you could join Mark and me as we welcomed Jeff, Alfredo, Naomi, Pat, and Yesha on this episode of Better Together. Be sure to subscribe, follow on social media, and share this episode with industry friends. We really appreciate your support. We've got a second TappyCon 23 live episode ready to go. So I'll meet you there. Thank you for listening to Better Together, the Paper 360 podcast.
SPEAKER_04Hello everyone, this is Larry Montague, president and CEO of Tappy, the pulp, paper, packaging, tissue, and converting industry's go to resource for news, industry trends, and technical and management information. We hope you enjoy today's Better Together podcast. And remember, there are two types of people in our industry Tappy members and those who should be. Have a great day.